Update: AG asks state Supreme Court to deny Bent appeal (kob.com, 10/16)
Advisory: Comments in this thread have been re-opened
Update: “Imprisoned For Sabbath Keeping” (strongcity.info, 10/7)
*NEW*: VIDEO, “Wayne Bent defends his hunger strike” (krqe.com, 9/24)
Update: “Judge rules in favor of force feeding imprisoned cult leader” (koat.com, 9/23)
Update: “Judge puts fasting cult leader in doctor’s hands” (kob.com, 9/23)
*New: (updated to include *VIDEO* of KOB-TV’s 6pm news story) “Court could intervene on cult leader’s fast” (kob.com, 9/23)
Video: (KOAT, 9/22)
Update: “Cult leader Wayne Bent is scheduled to be in court on Wednesday as a judge decides whether the state should force feed him.” (koat.com, 9/22)
Update: Leader of NM sect goes on fast in prison (Associated Press on KOB-TV website, 9/17, 1:15pm PST)
***
(September 17) Beyond90Seconds received an e-mail from Jeff Bent at 7:10 am (PST) today. Bent is the son of “cult leader” Wayne Bent, whose criminal case has been extensively covered on this blog. Wayne Bent (aka Michael Travesser) and his followers have also been the subject of two National Geographic Channel documentaries and numerous news reports around the world. In December 2008, a New Mexico jury convicted Wayne Bent on one count of second-degree sexual contact with a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. According to his son, prisoner Wayne Bent has been fasting for 18 days.
Jeff Bent’s unedited e-mail, apparently sent to numerous media outlets, is shared below with his permission:
Hello,
You are receiving this message because you have contacted me about my
father, Wayne Bent, or have reported on his criminal case. I have
sent copies of this message to New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson,
Attorney General Gary King, and the Department of Corrections.My father is on the 18th day of a religious fast over his wrongful
conviction and imprisonment. Since Monday, September 14th, he has
been taking water only.John McCall, my father’s attorney, stated publicly, “Our office has
determined that this case is more of a trial of the media and the
structures in our society that are tasked with determining the truth.”
The media’s role is to separate fact from fiction, and to seek the
truth. The courts are to judge according to the facts and the law –
nothing else.The media and the courts failed spectacularly at doing their job. My
father, Wayne Bent, found himself at the center of a national media
feeding frenzy in 2008, having become the subject of a largely
contrived and self-perpetuating storyline of a “cult leader” requiring
sex with the young virgins in his apocalyptic church while falsely
predicting the end of the world. While this fiction had mass appeal
and was much more interesting than the truth, it resulted in a highly
charged criminal case involving his healing practices with two teenage
sisters. Caught up in the maelstrom of publicity and unable, or
unwilling, to separate my father’s media created persona from the
actual events called into question, the court failed in its role to
stick with the facts and the law, delivering a great injustice to my
father and his church.This outcome should be of concern to everyone that understands the
importance of a legal system that protects people equally under the
law, especially unpopular minorities who may find themselves targeted
by the media’s powerful ability to mold public perceptions.The facts of my father’s criminal case are as follows:
1. My father was charged with two counts of criminal sexual contact
with a minor (CSM), and two counts of contributing to the delinquency
of a minor (CDM). He was acquitted on one count of CSM, and convicted
on the other counts.2. These charges stemmed from a religious healing practice where the
teenaged minors asked to be in his presence unclothed. These
encounters were for the purpose of healing prior emotional trauma in a
safe setting. These encounters were decidedly and emphatically
non-sexual in nature. The minors’ parents were not unaware of the
healing practices some in the church were requesting of Mr. Bent. It
was a subject of open discussion within the church.3. It was common for Wayne Bent, when he was still ministering to his
flock, to put his hand on the sternum above the heart, just below the
clavicle. He did this to invest the soul of that person with his own
peace. It is believed by Mr. Bent that the heart is where the soul
resides.4. Witness A.S., age 16 at the time, was one of the minors who
requested of Wayne Bent to be in a state of naked vulnerability in his
presence so she could release prior emotional trauma that blocked her
from Oneness with God. This non-sexual 15 minute session with A.S. is
what resulted in my father’s conviction on one count of CSM. A.S.
left the church and chose a different lifestyle a couple of years
before this case went to trial. The other witness – her younger
sister – remains part of my father’s church.5. A.S. testified that my father, Wayne Bent, placed his hand on her
sternum over her heart. When asked if his hand touched any portion of
her breast, she replied, “I don’t remember.” The prosecutor asked if
Mr. Bent placed his hand anywhere else on her body. She answered,
“Not that I recall.”6. A.S. said Mr. Bent kissed her on her “breast.” When asked to show
the court where he kissed her, she pointed to an area on her chest
below her left clavicle and above the pillow portion of her breast.
There were significant questions during the trial of what constitutes
a breast that were never answered.7. Defense attorney Sarah Montoya showed witness A.S. a Barbie doll
wearing a bikini and asked her if Mr. Bent touched her anywhere on her
body where the Barbie was covered by the bikini. She answered, “No.”
Ms. Montoya asked “Are you sure?” A.S. replied, “Yes.”8. My father, Wayne Bent, testified under oath that he never touched
the breasts of either witness.9. During a bench conference with counsel at closing arguments, Judge
Gerald Baca can be heard on the record whispering, “There’s no
evidence to support that there was ever a touching of the breast.”10. During closing arguments, the prosecutor told the jury multiple
times that the witnesses both testified that they were touched on the
breasts by Mr. Bent. This falsehood, as well as others uttered by the
prosecutor, helped sway the jury in the direction of conviction,
according to one juror who was interviewed afterwards by The Alibi
newspaper.11. Judge Baca sentenced my father to 18 years in prison, with 8
years suspended. He also received 8 years supervised probation and
must register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.To say the least, my father did not receive justice at his trial. The
State failed to meet any reasonable burden of proof that my father had
broken the law. Much of the trial consisted of testimony from the
State’s witnesses about my father’s controversial religious beliefs.
Having controversial beliefs is not a crime in New Mexico.The sentence he received is incredible beyond belief, being extremely
disproportionate by any measure of comparison. The sentence for
murder in the second degree is 14 years. The day before my father
received his sentence, a high school coach in Alamogordo was sentenced
to ten months work release for having sexual intercourse multiple
times with a 16 year old student at his mother’s apartment. This year
a fire captain in Rio Rancho received probation for having sexual
intercourse with a 15 year old multiple times in the fire house.My father has been turned down twice for a bond that he is legally
entitled to receive during his appeal. Why is that? Why is this
frail, physically at risk 68 year old man such as threat to everyone?
Why is the State so determined to keep him locked away?My father is mindful of the fact that the courts are heavily
influenced by public opinion regarding his case, and not the facts and
the law. There are no political costs for keeping him in prison, but
justice has taken a back seat to political expediency.This is why my father is now on a religious fast, and will not end his
fast until there is movement in the direction of justice, or he dies.
He was wrongly convicted and wrongly incarcerated as a result of a
modern-day witch-hunt, and he cannot continue to be a party to this
travesty of justice.Jeff Bent
Calling a hunger strike a relgious fast is just another example of extreme rationalization. Ignoring the fact that sex, or as they call it, consumations, are part of Wayne’s relgious agenda is not only lying to yourself, but lying to the world.
The severity of the sentence is the real issue here. Those other cases Jeff sites are excellent examples of what the Appeal should be based on. In that Jeff is absolutely correct. Unfortunately this “fasting,” I seriously doubt will influence the Courts.
Wayne is not willing to settle for a lighter sentence.
The “healing” spin campaign
All efforts by Jeff Bent to try to show what his dad, Wayne Bent, did as merely routine “healing” sessions are exposed as shallow prevarications when you know the real story. Admittedly, Wayne Bent’s ministry is bizarre by any standards. In spite of all of the protestations about everything being about healing, his religion was very much about sex and the two girls who appeared as witnesses in the court case were, for a while, very much slated for eventual full sexual intercourse with Wayne, as were a group of 7 or more of the more attractive females in his church who did all succumb to his bedroom gymnastics. For quite a while, Wayne and Jeff (as their website coordinator) boasted and proclaimed Wayne’s sexual activities as something they wanted the world to know about. Wayne often referred to what he practiced as a religion of “Strange Acts” and indeed they were. This very unusual sexual crusade was a step-by-step program (of which the “healing” naked sessions were a preliminary step for all the candidates) with the eventual result, a literal “consummation,” his term for sexual relations, done under the auspices of divine direction. His sexual ministry was defined online in lengthy booklets, entitled “The Vision,” and “The Finished Work,” as well as a two hour movie of the same name. If any member of the media would like to see those, I can arrange to make a viewing available, so that the full story of this sexual campaign can be appreciated.
What is most interesting about this (now hushed up) sex ministry is that Wayne (acting in the role of The Son of God) proclaimed that mankind’s salvation is now limited only to those who have accepted his sexual acts with the various women in the church as being divinely inspired. Those who reject his sexual escapades as anything other than from God are, according to Wayne, hopelessly doomed to eternal damnation.
So, maintaining that this was all about healing in their PR campaign is quite misleading, because it was about sex and a simple reading of their works will provide the whole story. At one time Wayne was quite proud of his acts of consummation and that is why these publications were boldly shown on-line. When he was in the midst of fulfilling “The Vision,” which was to have full sexual relations with the Seven Messengers (two of which were the underaged victims) he began to get negative reactions from some of his members and many left. Some of those, now former, members began making police complaints and Wayne changed his mind (he said he got a message from God) about having sex with the underaged girls. He took down the online booklets which described the sexual ministry and began to work toward changing the perception of what he did with the underage girls as being merely non-sexual events. But, he had already done the “laying naked” and unfortunately his abandoning the original plans wasn’t enough to stop the eventual court proceedings. However, his sexual ministry continued after the laying naked with the two girls was exposed (three actually, one session was with a 12 year old which was not charged). Wayne didn’t stop his sexual evangelism, but completed all his “consummations” with the rest of the group who were the legal aged virgins, even substituting several other attractive women of his group to take the places for the two dropped out girls, all as part of the fulfillment of some prophetic writings which Wayne had interpreted quite egocentrically.
Often throughout this case, the truth has been tarnished by the StrongCity people in their efforts to publicly present their position in what they think will be more publicly acceptable. I do agree that Wayne’s sentence is inappropriate, based on the crime (which, while deserving of reprimand, but did not warrant a sentence of such drastic proportions). But, it is my feeling that the best way to campaign for justice, however, is with the truth, not something varnished to look like a presentation which they think will be more palatable. When most people read that “healing” explanation they rightly wag their heads in disbelief. Strange how the truth is so easily discernible. My advice… avoid the “spin.” The truth can set you free.
— Sam
Setting the record straight.
What a helpful reminder from Sam Redman, as to what this case is actually about. Jeff, do you really think some of us, who have read almost every word your father’s ministry has shared with the on line world, have forgotten exactly why Wayne Bent, managed to find himself in this predicament? If I remember too, Wayne as Michael even stated clearly that he did all of what he did, knowing full well that it was against the law and he would be in trouble.
What Sam posted really needs to be shared, beyond the readership of Mark’s blog. All the media outlets in Albuquerque as well as the New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, Attorney General Gary King, and also the Department of Corrections really need a refresher course on the history of Wayne Bent’s Ministry. I will be sending this to them, first thing tomorrow morning. Plus I will include the important contact information for them to review the “Booklets,” Sam referenced in the above post.
I am sure all these people will appreciate Mr. Redman’s history lesson as much as I did.
Jan
I have been quietly wondering where A.S.’s parents are at? I have noticed a couple of provocative web sites she has put up in which she has pictures of herself on display of partial nudity.
Where are these parents at to guide her? I find that very concerning. Not that this has anything to do with this case.
I also find it interesting that the mother would leave the daughters behind at Strong City if she disagreed with and did not want her children to be part of what the church was doing there. And the fact that Healed phoned her mother to ask her if she could lay with Wayne Bent should have been a red flag.
So many things that do not add up about this family in particular.
At any rate, I believe that A.S. was being honest about not being touched sexually, and where the kiss was at is something no one will ever be sure of. Regardless I still feel Wayne Bent is serving and extreme amount of time in comparison with other offenders. That’s obvious.
I’m going to be stepping out from commenting for now on because I don’t mind watching quietly and do not want to be a groupie.
Good luck to Wayne and his family.
Warren Jeffs has been force fed several times. Creme of Spam is his favorite tube meal!
As sacrilegious as the following sounds, it is exactly the philosophy and the teaching of Wayne Bent:
Wayne’s writings and narratives repeat that theme over and over and yet the defense they now offer to get him out of his jail term is to try to convince that this wasn’t about sex. It was most certainly a sexual ministry, starting with his sexual interpretation of the Song of Solomon and leading up through his own book called “The Vision,” which was, according to him, a prophetic revelation that he was going to have have sex with a group of seven virgins in his group of followers. And two of those intended in “The Vision” for sex were the same victims who testified in the trial. Now Jeff Bent says it was “emphatically non-sexual.” And then he tries to say that the victim, “A.S.”, 18 years old, while testifying, didn’t know the difference between Wayne kissing her “breast” and kissing her collar bone, when she knew full well that what she was saying on that stand could send a man to prison for criminal sexual improprieties. Every teenage girl knows full well what her breasts are and where they are located.
Jeff evidently assumes the appeal judges are going to be as stupid as he thinks we and the media must be.
Where were A.S. parents? That is a question worthy of reflection. Some wonder if they deserve to be in jail for contributing to the delinquency of their children? Maybe as one reporter hinted, they missed out on so much of life that when they finally broke free of strong city they lost all sense of responsibility. You know, Yeh, baby let the good times roll. I say hogwash! These two beautiful people were probably never allowed to be the parents of these girls. There was always someone in LOR who knew how to raise children better than the parents. Usually they didn’t have kids or they had the most unruly kids around. Ultimately the final authority rested with Wayne. So these girls are Wayne’s children, in reality. He is their real father. The kids all knew that what Wayne said was what went down. A.S. parents have no real authority in the mind of these kids. It is sad to say, but they are more akin to nannies. Do you know how many children were discarded by this group for LOR’s “spiritual” convenience? They plan on looking out over the walls of the New Jerusalem, and sometime after having surveyed the dead corpses of these disposable relics of their more fleshly existences, rapturously exclaiming, “heaven is cheap enough”.` . Kids listen! forgive them for this misrepresentation of God.
I’m going to make an attempt here to bridge the understanding between Sam’s and Wayne’s views relating to the consummations at Strong City. Was it about sex or wasn’t it? Could the following be an accurate assessment?
Wayne Bent is a morally upright man who totally eschews temptations to lust. His love for righteousness and holiness is beyond that of the greater percentage of humanity. Yet, he knows that a “voice” spoke to him and required him to engage in activities that under other circumstances would be so evil. He believed that to disobey that “voice” would be spiritual suicide. He was choosing between heaven and hell when he made the decision to consummate. Wayne is an honest victim (of course, not seen as such by himself) of the “voice” that he follows. He is not a sexual predator. This kind of devotion can only be understood by those who have believed in a cause so strongly that they are willing to die for it, i.e. suicide bombers, martyrs, etc. The crux of the matter is the “voice”. Was it God’s voice or another’s and how do we tell the difference?
I am having a real hard time with Mr. Jeff Bent actually believing some of what he posts on the Strong City site. I know presently some of the proof of what this Ministry really was about is no longer on line, but that does not mean that we all have amnesia. For several years they proudly posted away about the Prophecy. And The Vision and the Finished Work were out there too for all to see. There were quite a few websites that had these very women that participated in these “acts,” proclaiming their love and devotion to Michael and why what they did was necessary. Healed herself wrote in detail about all of this. Does Jeff think we do not remember any of that? Just because that did not come out in the trial itself, does not mean that it never happened.
The problem with what Jeff is saying is that he is leaving out all of what lead up to Healed and her sisters naked session. In fact Jeff leaves out the important detail of Healed wanting very much a full consummation with her beloved. She probably still does and there is that to consider if they let Wayne out of prison.
Also as was mentioned by Polemic, eighteen year old girls do know the difference between breasts and collar bones. Good grief Jeff you have been living out in the boonies too long if you do not know the truth about that one.
Poor Jeff he really is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Having to explain again and again how Wayne really was just healing these two underage girls when it is well known that they were in line for the big consummation as “Father,” had ordered Michael to perform. Doesn’t it get old having to lie time and time again for your dad? I refuse to believe Jeff that you think we are really that stupid and buying the new media spin campaign. I do not think that anyone but the Lorites believe a word you say.
wdawn55 said, “I’m going to make an attempt here to bridge the understanding between Sam’s and Wayne’s views relating to the consummations at Strong City. Was it about sex or wasn’t it? Could the following be an accurate assessment?
Wayne Bent is a morally upright man who totally eschews temptations to lust. His love for righteousness and holiness is beyond that of the greater percentage of humanity. Yet, he knows that a “voice” spoke to him and required him to engage in activities that under other circumstances would be so evil. He believed that to disobey that “voice” would be spiritual suicide. He was choosing between heaven and hell when he made the decision to consummate. Wayne is an honest victim (of course, not seen as such by himself) of the “voice” that he follows. He is not a sexual predator. This kind of devotion can only be understood by those who have believed in a cause so strongly that they are willing to die for it, i.e. suicide bombers, martyrs, etc. The crux of the matter is the “voice”. Was it God’s voice or another’s and how do we tell the difference?”
There is no bridge to understanding between a Sam’s or a Wayne’s views, unless the true consummation is the basis for understanding in one’s heart. Only that real and literal Oneness with “God” sees clearly what the issue here actually is.
To assume that the attributes of Wayne’s character are as you suggest, is to be unaware of the entire truth of the matter. Rather, it is true that everything he once stood for as Michael, “The Messiah” at one point in his ministry, was overturned by Michael, “the Astonisher”, at a later point, (as is the prophecy) because of Wayne’s following a familiar voice, instead of Truth. In other words, that holy spirit that once imbued Michael before the cutting off of Messiah in the Spring of 2004, was replaced by the spirit of desolation, leading those of the church astray that could be so led. This is the issue. This is/was the prophecy and now it may be plainly revealed to eyes that might see, by simply looking at the fullness of what has transpired.
This is Wayne’s (Michael’s) real sacrifice. To be taken down this road willingly, not being sure of where it was taking him by faith that all is well, has been his lot. Even now he is unsure, and gropes for meaning (just as we all might do at times when we stray from Truth). The light will return to him at some point, and he will be seen returned in the fullness of Messiah, regardless of the conditional form of his life at that point, after “the Astonisher” (more accurately “the Desolator”), is himself desolated.
That is understanding, or that is hogwash, depending on the spirit which inhabits you. If this is your understanding, you see how it proves once and for all how we can never be sure of appearances, but must know the Spirit for and as what it is, or be led astray to desolation. If this is your hogwash, then you are led, no matter which “side” of the issue you are on (whether a Sam or a Wayne), to the desolation that awaits us all when we unwittingly follow a familiar “voice”, at the expense of the True One.
So, getting down to brass tacks here, Sam and Wayne at this point are actually of the same spirit in this. The Messiah Michael, that Spirit Who we essentially are, is what carries us through this time, or we are lost to the desolation of an “astonisher”.
Just like what we see and what we think and what we say and what we do, we know the spirit of the voice by listening with the sense of Michael, regardless of what form Messiah might take before us.
It might be time to clean out the bong, Craig. You don’t want to keep taking pulls when it gets all that sticky tar build up. I’m just thinkin’.
Whisperwind what are you saying? That A.S parents should get a free pass on lousy parenting because they were in a “cult”? If so, I heartily disagree. They moved away from “the land” years ago and have had many opportunities since then to improve upon their relationships with their children, especially some counsel with all of the times social services has been in and out of their door. But from everything I have seen, those girls were abandoned off and on throughout their young to early adolescent lives, and for that you cannot blame Wayne Bent for. I believe that he kissed A.S on the breast as she testified, and I believe WB is guilty but you cannot schlepp off the blame entirely on him for the abandonment of these girls.
What is the excuse now? They are not looking after A.S welfare again as the young woman has an assortment of photo pages out on the internet displaying herself partially nude. It’s not hard to find, I will not post links to such things. In my field of work, whenever I see a young woman involved in such activities on the internet, the first question is, where are the parents? I find that question and other comments raised by another poster as valid here.
I will also state that I’ve been following this case for a long time myself and I too believe that WB has received an unfair sentence. It does not fit the crime.
wdawn55, I’m sure you have the answer to the crux of the matter. Do tell, so the rest of us, being so far below you and Wayne in love for holiness and rightousness can discard not only Christ our fantastical savior, as the LORites propose, but also the Holy Spirit too, whose office it is to convict and convince of sin. You had better go clear this with the conference president. I first learned about the office of the holy ghost in catechism (by the way, are you formally applying for Jeff’s job?)
stephanie, while childern are somewhat inclined to yeild to the authority of a biological parent, that yielding is by no means automatic. Parents have to earn submission through things like fairness, consistency, and protection among other upright qualities. If parents are not able to accomplish this for whatever reason and some other entity can, then that thing becomes the highest authority in the childs life. Does that make any sense to you? Hence the danger in the abolition of the God ordained order of things, i.e. father, mother, child,
The excuse now is obviously that A.S. is an adult woman who can do whatever she wants. they say that if ideal parental authority is not established within the first few years it is not likely to ever be.
My main point here is, you can’t blame that abandonment on WB. Which is what you were basically trying to do. I do not agree with removing the responsibility from the parents because they made a choice to be part of a cult. They chose to leave their daughters behind.
Oh and my sister is 20 years old. We did not have the best childhood, but she still does not put tasteless images of herself out on the internet for the world to see. Without going into our backgrounds, it can easily be said we too had some negative religious influences as well, but I don’t use that as an excuse to continue to make bad choices either.
I think it’s safe to say that the parents broke free from WB years before their daughters, whom they chose to abandon were molested. It’s also safe to say that Healed phoned her mother and reported to her what was about to take place with the laying skin to skin. Her mother made that choice not to do anything about it right away. How many days went by before the mother came to collect her children? Was it for the National Geographic cameras? Ah, we reach the crux of the matter here.
Look, I feel some sympathy for this family and the mother but that only extends so far. I think it’s only fair for people to take responsibility. That would be like Jeff saying he lost his wife because WB stole her. He didn’t steal her, his wife went willingly. It was a choice, even if made under the influence of religion. WB is gone, in prison… and these people still choose to live in accordance with the man’s teachings. Where does personal responsibility begin, and pity end?
Making derogatory comments about A.S (like, she has sites with “partial nudity”) is irresponsible and malicious. What you define as “partial nudity” is simply ordinary teen and college age summer casual attire. And her choice of clothing is her right. Current styles are not offensive to anyone who has their head on straight (only someone with a dirty mind would think otherwise). My goodness, A.S is 19 years old now and able to make her own decisions. And she seems to have a very good perspective on life. Most significant is that she really shows (as you can see in her following quoted comment) that she loves her parents. Here was her comment on Myspace right as she was turning 18:
[blockquote]
A.S wrote on Myspace —
Its pretty funny most the people I hang out with don’t really know me, unless your lucky! I guess you could say I have had a easy childhood but very hard in my teenage years. Seventeen has as been my best year! YEA! I can bee very outgoing and hyper and will damn talk your ears off…lol. My boyfriend says I’m very michievous and naughty so I’d be careful. I most always tell the truth some people don’t like it but you can depend upon it. I can be very stuburn well just like all Sayers, its in my jeans! I’ve lived in five different Sates. But loved Aizona, south D. and Wyoming the most. I love to sing, but yah very luck to even hear it. I have two totaly cool parents that I love, Forever! I have one younger sister who use to be my best friend :(. Do you know what it feels like to be the last one to know the lock on the door has changed? I have some kick ass friends in Kansas, I LOVE YOU!!!! It sucks being all the way down here. And my Baby O man I can’t live without him. ” This may sound weird but I love the shit out of you dude.” lol Well I gonna snap! that shot and say its good…laterzz [/blockquote]
Sounds like A.S has it together. How many 19 year olds think their parents are “cool” and love them intensely? They must have done something right.
Finally, to now blame the parents for what happened to those girls behind closed doors in Wayne’s bedroom is also unfair. They were staying with their Grandmother (did you know that?… their Grandmother)on what was assumed to be a religious sanctuary. They were not abandoned. The blame for what happened to them can be placed squarely on their ultimate authority figure, Wayne Bent, claiming to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.
Keep it respectful here, folks. Feel free to disagree. But keep it respectful.
What this is really about …
Why the attacks all of a sudden on John and Elsa Sayer? To me they seemed like good and very decent people who somehow when all these other couples were separating for the sake of Michael, these two somehow stayed together. I find them a breath of fresh air in this whole story. Several who have been in their presence have commented on how remarkable they are and how much in love. For me it is one of the few positives I have seen from any of this.
I am certain they endured a great struggle over this ordeal that their daughters faced because of Wayne Bent. In a way it is surprising how two sisters were the straw that broke Wayne’s ministry apart. It also shows though that there were two very different reactions by basically girls of the same upbringing. If the Sayers could have seen into the crystal ball of their future I am sure they would have done things differently. What parents often don’t have regrets? But their way of life was the church. John had been raised in this church and it was not easy for them to realize they needed to leave. At the same time, this was the only life the daughters knew so they left them there. They did not abandon them. To say that they did would be wrong. I am sure they felt that their grandmother was at the time a responsible care giver. How could they know that Wayne would take advantage of the situation and allow what went on with both sisters? The blame for this is solely on Mr. Bent, no one else.
The issue here though is not the Sayers. The issue continues to be why Wayne is in the situation he is today and why he is fasting. And Jeff’s new little spin about this being not ever about sex, just a little healing touching of the sternum, is just not true. All of this was about sex. In fact if Wayne had not got caught it would have also been about sex with Healed! Some have said that is still bothering Wayne that he did not complete what he said was asked of him.
As for A.S. and those pictures … Well she is just doing what millions of other girls and guys too are doing every day. Young people are posting on Facebook, Myspace, and all the other social networking sites. I have looked at her account and it seems normal. She is nineteen now, and went through quite an ordeal. Isn’t it wonderful that she is doing normal things now, having a full exciting wonderful life? Then there is Healed, sitting at the gates of Strong City … I wonder which of the two girls we should be concerned about?
But let us not be fooled by the new words of Jeff, this was always about sex, or in the words of the Lorites, “consummations with the spiritual Michael.”
Jan
“Making derogatory comments about A.S (like, she has sites with “partial nudity”) is irresponsible and malicious. What you define as “partial nudity” is simply ordinary teen and college age summer casual attire. And her choice of clothing is her right.”
I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing malicious meant behind my observations. I did not link nor reveal what internet page I was referring to, nor was I referring to normal dress. I don’t think it was wise to put it out there exactly where her page is though, or a blog entry of her’s without her permission.
“Finally, to now blame the parents for what happened to those girls behind closed doors in Wayne’s bedroom is also unfair.”
Once again, I disagree with you. Parents and grandparents are supposed to protect their children, and I don’t believe WB is solely responsible.
I don’t feel I’m out of line here by touching on that issue either.
“Why the attacks all of a sudden on John and Elsa Sayer?”
There’s no attacks Jan. I’m simply making an observation here, the same as you do. We can agree to disagree that the parents abandoned their children into this cult.
Also, this is about A.S as she is the victim here that was molested. I’m simply making observations about her parentage.
Additionally, the pictures I saw on one of the sites has been taken down. I assume someone must read this blog or it’s coincidence. I’m glad that they were taken down though, as it is worrisome to me when young women have that kind of material up on their web pages. It may be normal to some, but in reality it is very dangerous. Myspace IS a predator’s playground.
Well, Stephanie, for you to make an accusation (in effect, you are now accusing A.S. of essentially posting porn images of herself) without proof is irresponsible and very malicious. Do you not understand the gravity of what you are doing? You are not only merely rumor mongering, you are maligning another person and you are doing it under the veil of some sort of higher sense (than the rest of us) of propriety on your part. You are being overtly libelous. To attack another person by saying that you have some secret proof of her indiscreet public display is true defamation of character. You have no right to do that and you are very, very wrong in your despicable judgemental vulgarity.
I agree that these sites are a concern. I am certain that many young people will regret some day that they did such careless posting of pictures and statements in the carefree days of their youth. Predator sites, probably, but also not sensible for their long term futures. So I am not disagreeing at all about the posting on any Social Networking Sites. However, it seems to be popular and normal. And I for one am glad that A.S. has recovered from her ordeal and is apparently enjoying her life. Her sister continues down the path of being under the control of Michael/Wayne.
I think we will just have to respectfully disagree about who is at fault here. For me, this was all a very calculated long sexual plot by Mr. Bent. Many people got pulled into his web of lies and it still continues. And Jeff right now seems to be trying to rewrite history. I have a big problem with that.
Samuel Redman, You’re mistaken. First of all I am a social worker, who sees young women and children of all ages who are caught up in dangerous situations that involve social networking sites. I’m in no way trying to malign anyone here, nor do I have any reason to lie. There were pictures, and in fact after checking again still a few from the same series I saw.
I’m entitled to my opinion, the same as you are about WB and all of the many things you have stated about them. In fact, many things that were incredibly direspectful at times. So .. I will leave all of it at that.
If there are any questions to my observations and opinions here, my director has been reading this forum off and on since all of this began. She’s pretty much mentioned the same opinions to me. In fact, she wanted to write to the mother about it, but decided against getting involved. Like I said, it is extremely worrisome to see a young woman putting this type of pictures on the internet, and many do it without realizing the danger.
That is all I intend to state on the whole thing, and still stand by my opinion that the parents /grandparents failed to protect the girls. So much could have been avoided here.
Jan, I am bothered by the fact that many people think it is normal to post very revealing photos, especially minors, on the internet. It is not healthy and it is dangerous. If you knew just how dangerous myspace was, I don’t think we’d even be bantering back and forth about that one.
Anyway, I’ve pretty much said all I care to on the matter. It’s nice to see beyond 90 seconds back but I do not have much time for this as I did a year ago.
Oh and Sam, I needed to also make it clear with you… I never anywhere stated that the pictures were pornographic, they were not. Porn is illegal on that particular site in question and would have been removed by the site because I would have had to report them. Thank you.
You are not entitled to publish your calumny against another person where you accuse her of something as damaging as implying that she is posting porn images (and you just did it again in your last post). She is not a public figure by any legal definition and you have no right to make such implications. She truly has a legal cause against you right now. Nothing she has on the internet deserves your maligning attacks and veiled vilification.
Stephanie, I very much respect your opinion and appreciate it,(yours to wdawn55, I’m sorry if I was out of line) but what I’m trying to point out is John and Elsa were never the real parents while they were in the LOR. Niether was any of the rest of the family. I know this for a fact from experience. When I was there, if somebody in the community thought that your parenting skills were lacking, you and/or your children were called in for a conference. This could be before the the whole church or if the situation was serious enough before the ministers. (this was before the internet was in widespread use) and they made suggestions that you had better darn well heed. I am not even saying this is inappropriate in and of itself, but when it leads to the blind submission of a whole group to this sort of activity, something has gotten way out of wack. Now you don’t take a kid who has seen dad and mom submitt to something all their lives and suddenly negate that influence and begin to see dad and mom as the main source for obtaining information in life. This precious little family has only just began a long and difficult journy. They are much loved.
Total Fast Begins …
Another very interesting post by Jeff Bent on the Strong City website.
Jeff reminds us that tomorrow begins the “total fast,” period when Wayne will no longer take in any water or nutrition voluntarily.
He apparently was able to meet with his dad yesterday and Jeff now has a list of the various points Wayne intends to make regarding his fast, if he is able to plead his case before the court. Jeff however believes that they will try to force feed his father in secret, without any court appearance.
John and Elsa were very young and vulnerable as members of the cult. The fact that they chose to leave to keep their marriage intact endears me to them. They thought the Grandma and other relatives would care for their girls. While most of us wouldn’t leave our children, for them this was a salvation issue. Maybe in their heads they weren’t going to make it to Heaven by leaving the cult, but their girls still had a chance. In retrospect I’m sure they feel horrible about what happened but without some serious counseling I don’t think they’ll truly understand the dynamics of what took place.
A.S. obviously felt violated, and a kiss is still a kiss wherever it’s placed if that’s what she felt it was. Many people, after an encounter such as what occurred, feel dirty and go off the deep end engaging in behavior that they would not normally do. Why not? They have already been used and abused so they might as well continue. Social Networks are common and while I personally don’t like some of the things said or shown by the teens on the networks, A.S. is not my child and she is an adult so she’s free to do as she wishes. My own children have removed things from their sites as they got older and started looking for jobs. They realized that potential employers don’t want to see you in all your happy party moments. I’m more worried for A.S. as she grows up and realizes that the trial and everything said about her could stay around on the Internet for a long time. I think it will be very hard to explain what happened at SC to new friends.
As for WB, Jeff can send out all the media releases he wants but the reality is that very few people really care. His followers and their family members are really the only ones with a true interest. The rest of us are interested for different reasons, psychological studies, criminal justice issues, etc.
Two appeal bonds denied tell me that the justices are watching what’s going on at SC and have not forgotten WB and his cult. If his convictions are upheld but there is an order for a new sentencing hearing, 3 years is still a minimum sentence for the crime. I don’t believe there is anyway around that, although I suppose ankle monitoring or some other means could be used to fulfill that sentence.
But herein lies the rub. WB is unrepentant, although if released, I’m sure he’ll be very careful to continue his “healing” with women who have reached the ripe age of 18. Healed will be in his loving arms just as fast as he will let her. Poor old man left on a cold floor! He didn’t seem so old when he was bedding women just about every night.
I have no sympathy for him. He made his bed, now he has to lie in it. He had it really good at Los Lunas but his ploy for media coverage has backfired and I seriously doubt that he’ll ever get the privileges back that he had before this “final fast”. And I know the prison will do every thing in their power to ensure he doesn’t die on their watch.
Jan, I don’t believe that there is any legal recourse, such as putting his case about the fast before a court of law. He can petition the Warden and write letters but the only court case that he has now is the appeal. And that has nothing to do with conditions at the prison or his fast.
If he gets lucky on appeal, he could get off completely or have his sentence reduced but I think the only thing his “fasting” is doing is causing bad feelings toward him. He was better off staying quiet but it’s not something he seems able to do.
KM, No offense intended but may I as if you have ever been to Strong City? Do you know A.S and her parents? You seem to know everything, about Wayne Bent’s motives. But how do you know?
How do you know Wayne slept with women every night? Were you there?
I am sure that since Michael has been fasting his body has been placed in a weakened state, so being put in a concrete cell with only a canvas blanket to cover up with would be very traumatizing. I’m sure you would find it to be traumatizing as well.
Regardless of wether or not Wayne is getting what he deserves I consider such treatment he received as inhumane.
“You are not entitled to publish your calumny against another person where you accuse her of something as damaging as implying that she is posting porn images (and you just did it again in your last post). She is not a public figure by any legal definition and you have no right to make such implications. She truly has a legal cause against you right now. Nothing she has on the internet deserves your maligning attacks and veiled vilification.”
But you are entitled to post your opinions repeatedly no matter how mean spirited they are about people from SC? Including Healed who is a minor? (which you have done here and other sites)
I’m only going to repeat this once more, then I am done with this issue. I stated that there were partially nude photos, not pornographic images. I never once implied that those images were pornographic, you did. Secondly, I have never ran an entire mirror site where I made anyone from SC public images, you have. I’ve never attacked anyone, but the parents of these children in regards to their protection. When I raised up the question of the photos, I also said, “where are the parents?” I believe I have a right to those opinions, as you do about WB or anyone else you have been posting about for the past year here. The only thing I have mentioned here is the issue of parenting and young women who are left to make dangerous mistakes on social networking sites. We can simply agree to disagree and move along.
WAYN’ES STRANGE CONFESSION
Contrary to what men thought, the trial was not primarily about Wayne’s innocence or guilt with regard to man’s laws. But that is the way it seemed, and also how he was sentenced. In Wayne’s context, the trial was about something far more important than man’s requirements. In his defense, he felt obligated to confess that he had not been faithful to god’s instructions–he held back from the consummation. This, with the two (underage) women involved.
This would have far more consequences than the breaking of man’s law. While proving that he didn’t break man’s laws was an attempt to clear himself with man, it required that he admit that he had not been faithful to god. Simply said, he knew his problem was not with man, but with god. In order to prove that he had not violated man’s law, he had to admit that he had violated the vision, in which were god’s instructions. With full knowledge, he went ahead and made this strange confession.
Not a part of the trial, but within the context of what he calls THE VISION, he was not supposed to hold back. “Whatever they asked for,” he was supposed to give them. But in the trial, he and his lawyer spent the whole time trying to prove he had not even touched them in any way sexual. But those were not his orders.
The consummation is sexual. That is to say, in any normal consummation, you have to touch body parts that have a sexual function. This he did with most of the women. He touched them sexually and consummated with them. But not with all. Not with the two in his trial.
Now, after all the effort he went too, to prove that nothing sexual happened, he can’t turn to god and man and claim that it did. He can’t say that really, he consummated with all of them. He can’t say he gave them what they came asking for, what the lord had laid on their heart to get from him. And why not? Because he didn’t give it to them as he was supposed to.
We all know what the two came asking for, the same thing the others came asking for, got undressed for and into his bed for. And now, because of the trial, we know he didn’t give it to them. He was only faithful to the vision with some of the women. With the others, he was unfaithful (to the vision). Because of the trial, what could be more obvious? He and Jeff are still trumpeting the fact that he did not touch them sexually.
Unfaithful as he was, what does he think would be the result? When he assayed to deviate from the vision, did he forget cause and effect momentarily? Now he should know. Just look around him, at his surroundings, at his associates—guards and inmates. Now he has noticed, walls of steel. Doors that won’t open whenever you like. Food not up to your standards of snuff. Beds that are packed hard and stained having been used by plenty of others. Men who won’t cave in to your latest tantrum.
Wayne, why did you do it, hold back, leaving the vision incomplete? Your people want to know. And from where you are, how are you going to get it completed? Could someone else do it for you? No. Only messiah would qualify to complete it, right? And we all know there are cannot be two of those.
So we know there is only one true messiah, which means there are no others back at the ranch. Just as there can be only one true consummater, and he is locked up.
We know for purposes of the trial, you said you are just one among the others, all son’s of god etc like you. But in practical terms, you are the only one. The only one who could consummate with the women and complete the vision. The others there know it too. They don’t write about each other as they write about you. If they did, you would soon put a stop to it, as you did when they began kissing each other as you were going around doing it.
If they can’t even kiss the women as you do, then they sure can’t be the messiah, son of god that you are. And they better not be trying to complete the vision that you left incomplete. They better not “get a vision” and be going around consummating. They know this of course.
Perhaps there is some sort of immaculate conception (or two) that you could cause (perform) from where you are. By mail, or over the phone? But then if you did a couple of them that way, how would you know if they took effect? You could always say they did.
“Whisperwind,” your last comment crossed the line. You’ve been warned.
WAYNE’S VOICE
Wayne, why have you fornicated?
You mean, consummated? I heard a voice.
You heard a voice?
Yes, I have always been a man of utmost integrity but it sounded just like Yours. I was in my chair and I was sure it was You.
You thought it was Me…I would tell you to begin fornicating and molesting children?
At first I was not sure, but then I repented, not wanting to disobey You and face the consequences. I didn’t want someone else to have to go around fulfilling the prophecy right under my nose.
And now, because you heard a voice, you don’t want to face the consequences?
Hopefully, to avoid them I am starving myself until I get some better food. Jeff is appealing to the governor and others on my behalf. See what they can do. By the way, is there anything You can do to get me out of here?
What about cause and effect?
Oh that, I have had enough of it now. Now I am ready to try something else.
What else?
Oh, say something a little better. Something more to my liking. Something more suited to my style. Well actually, anything would be better than this.
Jeff Bent’s most recent posting is quite interesting, in the light of the prison perhaps seeking court approval to force feed Wayne Bent, because of his refusal to take food or water.
I found an extremely informative and inclusive article about the legal aspects of prisons force feeding prisoners. It is a 24 page pdf file, but it is well worth a full read through. It speaks right to the particulars of situations such as being faced now concerning Wayne Bent. It is entitled,
What They Can Do About It: Prison Administrators’ Authority to Force-Feed Hunger-Striking Inmates, by Tracey Ohm .
Take the time to read this one:
http://law.wustl.edu/Journal/23/p151Ohmbookpages.pdf
You can either just click on that link to view or download it or do a right click and select “save target as” in IE (or whatever similar link your browser provides).
Here is another excellent article on force feeding in prisons:
http://www.aele.org/law/2007JBDEC/2007-12MLJ301.pdf
This one is 11 pages. The force feeding discussion starts on page 3 (the first few pages are about forcing medication). There is a case study involving a Nation of Islam prisoner who claimed to be on a religious fast and how that was handled. There is some repetition from the first article (but, that’s because articles on this subject often cite the same court ruling precedents).
In an earlier article David Mead made the assertion that the reason Michael Travesser was on a fast was because he did not like the food. He also claims that Michael is throwing a tantrum or having a fit. These claims are totally preposterous and only from a diseased imagination.
When Gandhi fasted he was not fasting from food. He was fasting for a purpose. When Christ fasted in the wilderness for 40 days it was for a purpose and had nothing to do with food. When Moses fasted on the mount it was for a purpose and had nothing to do with food. Michael Travesser’s fast is for a purpose and has nothing to do with food. It is about a principle where he sees the state as a predator (and I agree) and he does not want to partake of the predators’ food.
And the consummations have never been about sex either in the same way. To say that it is about sex is totally ignoring the intent and purpose of the consummations of Michael. Yes sex was involved, but to turn it into a purely sexual issue is missing the whole point.
The cross of Christ was not about death alone. Yes Christ died, but His death was for a multi-fold purpose. To say that he just died would miss the whole point of his death. It would ignore the purpose and intent that God had for it. Joshua killed a whole bunch of people, but to say that he was a murderer on a killing spree would miss the whole intent and purpose for what happened at Jericho.
Was Isaiah a nudist? Was Hosea violating the law of God in marrying a whore? Was Moses a murderer? Was Joshua? Was Christ a bastard child? Did Mary have phony visions when she claimed that she was pregnant from God? At the time, to an outside observer who had not the Spirit of God, all these incidents would look like gross violations of the law. In each instance each one should have been institutionalized and and/or stoned for their crimes. Yet people today claim that they were doing the will of God. Back then it did not look that way. The vast majority did not believe. The vast majority still does not believe.
Nothing has changed. God does not move according to the dictates of men. God does not do things in any ordinary way.
The cross of Christ was to show others that they had to die to self. He died literally a shameful death that men might die to themselves. Was it about death alone? No! It was about death to self and to show the way and what it looks like. In addition he had the weight of the sins of the world upon him when he did it. No one else could do what he did. He alone was equipped for it. If someone else came along and said that they were doing it to show others how to die to themselves they would be an imposter.
Michael Travesser alone was equipped for the consummation. Anyone else would be an imposter. His consummation was not about sex, anymore than the cross of Jesus was about death.
The minds of unconverted men can never fully understand the ways of God for His ways are higher than the heavens. Only those who are converted to God’s mind can understand Him. The rest make up stories from their imagination, just like David Mead did.
Sam Redman does not have a clue either about the mind of God in this issue. It is impossible to observe this situation from a humanistic standpoint.
From a scientific and humanistic standpoint, Noah was a crazy fanatic. However only those who believed in one “crazy” man, building a boat, when it had never rained, were saved. Only 8 people got on. The rest were swallowed up by the flood he predicated.
As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man comes. This time it is with fire. And it is here for those with eyes to see.
Sam wants to remind us of Michael’s history from the standpoint of someone who was not there and does not know anything at all. Those who mock today would do well to take a little lesson from history that goes much further back.
After reading Milton’s last post, I felt that what Polemic posted earlier deserved a re-run (I corrected one bit of grammar). So here it is:
It is, of course, amusing, but also to the point and really is what Wayne has maintained. Putting into the phrasing of the classic and famous biblical, “John 3:16” brings home how ludicrous this all is.
And what is most significant is that the two underage girls were indeed slated in Wayne’s “The Vision” to have sex as members of seven selected virgins and they went through the same first step of “laying naked” as did those who did eventually have sex with Wayne. The kids only were saved because some members (now former) starting protesting and Wayne (he said he got a message from God) called off the next “consummation” step with them. Yes, it was about sex.
Those are excellent articles on this subject that Sam found, especially the 24 page document. I have to admit reading Case Rulings can be confusing to one like myself not legally trained. It is apparent though that there have been quite a few cases that have dealt with this very situation, although I did not see one specifically for New Mexico.
It would seem that throughout history inmates have used refusal to eat as a way of gaining leverage against prison officials. And most often there is nothing done until the situations become life threatening. Then the different view points on how to proceed are quite varied. It is apparent that a lot of intelligent thought has been put into this topic.
One way this apparently has been studied is whether the Correction Department interests in controlling “an orderly and disciplined institution” outweighs the inmate’s rights when the inmate’s intent is to manipulate the prison system. I found this particularly applicable to Wayne Bent. In my opinion his refusal to eat is a way to get his own special meals brought to him. Oh I know he has added his own spin to this but that is the essence of his fast.
Another point that is discussed is whether the refusal to eat is a true religious fast or often considered by prison administrators as a huger strike. I honestly would have a hard time myself declaring Wayne Bent is doing this for a religious purpose. Although I am sure he and his people would disagree on this. How the prison officials will be viewing it is what matters right now. And I would imagine they are looking at the very cases Sam has brought to our attention.
There have been rulings on both sides of this issue. Some actually do believe that an inmate should be allowed to continue not eating and not be forced fed because of their constitutional rights. There have been compelling arguments on both sides. To me there does not seem any clear cut answer here, as to what might prevail in Wayne’s situation.
This seems to be what is closely examined by the courts:
Prison security, maintenance of order, preservation of life, duty to provide medical care, the interests of the state in carrying out justice, and suicide prevention to justify administrative intrusion on an inmate’s decision to engage in a hunger strike.
There are guidelines and there seems to be a desire for an answer once and for all, to how these situations should be treated. Maybe Wayne Bent might be the test case for this. Perhaps that is the ultimate purpose for Wayne’s “final fast.”
Whisperwind: Your earlier post did not “hit close to home” for me. It was simply written with a voice that seemed to be nothing short, in my opinion, of mean-spirited. The post offered nothing of substance, only a short conveyance of off-colored disrespect.
I know there are blogs where that approach is commonly taken (even appreciated). But I don’t want that getting in the way of respectful discussion here.
Today, you responded to the deleted post with a new post, stating your previous post may have hit “too close to home” for me. Then, you express appreciation for this forum. Hmmmm…feels like a back-handed compliment here. This is why I’ve banned you.
Folks, I don’t have the time to referree all of your stuff. The majority of the comments here are written with great care and consideration. I want to thank you all for that.
Let’s try to uphold that standard. If you don’t like my approach, fair enough. Maybe you should find another blog to visit.
Finally, should I decide to ban anyone in the future, I won’t be writing an “explainer” about it (as I am here). I’ll just ban the person. Anyone who is banned is welcome to e-mail me if he/she would like to discuss the matter with me.
First of all let me join others that have stated before to Mark what a great forum this is and how much I, as do others, appreciate the opportunity to post here.
Now, those pdf documents that Sam referenced were filled with so many possible outcomes of what might happen this week with Wayne’s fast. I would not even begin to speculate as it seems rather divided between the rights of the individual and preservation of the dignity of the prison system.
I do suggest if one has the time to read the two articles, especially the 24 page one. Thanks Sam for posting the links, for us all to peruse
NOT ABOUT SEX AND FOOD
Wayne’s supporters say his sex was not about sex. They say his fasting for catered food, is not about fasting for catered food. But Wayne said it was. As soon as he gets his food catered in to him by his followers, he said he would stop his fast. That makes it about food.
You can always make one thing appear to be about something else, something much more elevated if you try. Then sex for instance, is not about sex. And if the one you intend to do it to buys it, your in. All the better for having sex. It’s called mind control, and those who want us to believe now that it isn’t about sex, do so with the same intent as their leader; to screw us over too if he can, if we will just buy what he is selling. They reason that if they have bought it, why shouldn’t we?
Okay, the one who wants to bed you may have something more sinister in mind as well. So? We are supposed to see how it was similar to how the Savior had some other things in mind too. This is supposed to change Wayne’s sex into something else more acceptable?
Let’s say the one defending Wayne’s sex as something other than sex, let’s say he goes next door and his neighbor backs over him with his car. His neighbor explains that he got the wrong idea, that he should think nothing of it for it wasn’t about backing over him with his car. How satisfying would that be? Okay, it may not have been about backing over him with his car. Let’s say it was about some wonderful high sounding theme that only he can explain. Still, the point is, he got backed over. You can’t change that fact with fancy footwork or the chicken dance.
This is a really good example of one whose mind is under the control of another man, and of his attempt to perpetrate the same on others. When it was sold to him, he bought it, and now he thinks we should buy it as well.
Milton, only those “spiritual” enough understood Marshall Applewhite and his “religion”, and they died for it. Does that make them more spiritual than you and me? Is that noble, in your mind? You cant see that these folks were manipulated and given false truths and false hopes?
To Anon (sorry to reply so late, I was on an airplane) :
No, I have not been to SC but I HAVE met A.S. and John and Elsa as well as several other former members. And no, I don’t know with certainty WB’s motives but from the many essays written over the past years on the Internet by him and several women, sex with many different women seems to be his modus operandi. I’m willing to admit I could be totally wrong and that perhaps sex wasn’t the motive, but it does seem suspicious that so much has revolved around consummation (which technically is a one time, first time event). And he admitted – on camera – that his relationship with Wendy involved more than one consummation. I believe he said something to the effect that married people don’t just have sex one time.
But, if I’m wrong, then the posts written by WB and his followers were fiction and fantasy and since they state they are ALWAYS honest, I’m taking them at their word and instead believe that what they wrote is true. Am I mistaken?
It seemed that there was a waiting room of sorts outside of WB’s home where the women would wait to be called in on any particular night, similar to a harem. Also, as a longtime married woman, I can see the love and need for WB in the eyes of the women. And Esther and the other young lady had no hesitation about discussing their lying naked with him and discussing the consummation – on camera – so the reasoning behind my statement about having a women in his bed whenever he desired came straight from the writings and videos of the people of SC. Seeing their love for him, I seriously doubt he had any problem finding a willing participant, which makes me cringe for the men whose wives left them for WB.
And I do apologize for my remark about the cold floor! No one, young or old should be made to lie on a cold, concrete floor, for any reason. But, he didn’t have to be there. It was his own choice by fasting, again, and making it a media event, again. Prison is not a pleasant place, it’s not meant to be and an inmate does not control the prison, the prison controls the inmate. Like it or not, the laws of our country are the final say in such matters. As I mentioned before, the correct way to change inhumane laws is to exercise your right to vote. If you haven’t done that, you can’t complain.
And I do understand the medical condition he is most likely in at this time and it’s extremely dangerous. But isn’t that what he wanted? To show the state, the judge, jury and all the citizens of NM that no one can control him. Temper tantrums to get your way only cause a person, child or adult, more grief. I’ve dealt with plenty of temper tantrums and my kids found out that they were the losers when they chose that route to get their way rather than speak rationally with me.
I really think he made this present move too quickly. There is a good chance that he might, at the least, receive a different sentence. Making this type of statement at this stage in an appeal could very well cause the justices to NOT want to consider his case. Although they will, because that is also one of the laws of our land. I know many of the justices and they are very capable of putting aside personal feelings in this type of case and hearing the appeal on the merits of the case.
So while I don’t like or agree with what he’s done (ending marriages and consummating with young women who should be falling in love and marrying a young man of their own age) I do believe that he has the right to a fair hearing in the Appeals Court and I hope for his sake, the ruling is soon!
David Mead, said, “Wayne’s supporters say his sex was not about sex. They say his fasting for catered food, is not about fasting for catered food. But Wayne said it was. As soon as he gets his food catered in to him by his followers, he said he would stop his fast. That makes it about food.”
If a man is being held prisoner against his will and being tortured, which would he receive with joy, a dry crust of bread from his friends or the most delicious meal imaginable from those who are holding him captive? Is it about the food or is it about WHO is bringing the food? Does the man want to be catered to? Your reasoning is really warped to think it is just about food or being catered to by friends. Michael has never said what you said.
Food has NOTHING to do with it at all.
And finally was the cross of Christ about crucifixion, or was there a much larger issue involved? I think every spiritual understanding of the simplest of matters has been erased from your mind. This was done by your departure from the truth that God gave you.
David, your pride has killed in you the great joy of being married/consummated to God. That is what the consummation of Michael is all about. God IN man filling his entire being with Himself, bringing Himself out of His creation is the crux. God has always wanted a being He can talk to face to face on equal basis. God wants a bride who forever loves Him with all her heart, mind, soul and body. The consummation was a literal visual representation of being married to God fulfilled in these last days, just as the cross of Christ was a literal visual representation of something much larger than just death.
You make fun of something that you will never know and in doing so you turn others against it. May God have mercy on your soul.
What I say I say freely without any coercion, fear of reprisal or because I am manipulated or controlled by a man.
James, the Heaven’s Gate people do not compare to Michael and those who love him. There is a huge difference in thought, intent and final purpose.
Charles Manson is also not a fair comparison either. The followers of Manson may have had crazed glazed over appearances but none of the people from Strong City have that. We have the opposite. We have a clear steady vision with an intensity of purpose and a pointed understanding of where God is leading us.
There were a lot of false messiah’s in Christ’s day too. They were sent as a diversion and a smoke screen in order to make the real Messiah look like he was crazy. He was called mad (crazy) by his own people.
The fact that there are false messiah’s proves that there is a real one. The devil would not send false messiah’s if he did not know that God had a true one. The scriptures say so.
Thank goodness there are a few posters here that continue to bring the focus back to what this is really about, sex and catered food. Some of the members, or former members (I am not sure anymore what your status is Milton) keep trying to explain away what Wayne did with all those women and wanted to do with the two underage girls, which landed him right where he is now, in jail. The laws of the State of New Mexico were broken and until the laws about touching breasts of underage girls are changed, then Wayne deserved to be locked up. He is where he belongs.
I was pleased to see KM remind everyone of how much Wayne enjoyed the consummation with his own daughter-in-law, so much he smiled and indicated they did it more than once. I guess she need extra healing.
The defenders of Wayne can keep trying to explain away all this but the hundreds of pages were on line for all to see. Wayne did what he did, he knew it was wrong, he did it anyway and he was proud of it all. Then came the trial where they all began lying about everything. How can supposedly religious people lie so very much?
And now he wants a better caterer. He will be lucky if he survives this stunt. I wonder if the force feeding began today?
Sorry I just am not accepting any of these arguments defending anything that Wayne has done.
Oh, and one more thing, exceptional post by KM today. It is nice to see someone post that has actually spent time with the Sayers. Very nice to read what you said. That family truly deserves all our prayers.
If you agree that the Strong City Cult has the same glassy eyed stare as the Manson Cult, respond with “Creepy Eyes”
Yeah, I seen a lot of comments about the wild stare in their eyes. I guess every religion has it’s fanatics.
KM, Thank you for writing back.
I think you are wrong about your observations. And Wayne and the other women have not lied, in the postings online.
I have no desire to attack any of these many people who get on the blogs to discuss this case but many times I have though, “Don’t they have something better to do with their time then make jokes about Wayne Bent all day long?”Not that EVERYONE makes jokes about Wayne Bent ALL DAY long, but I have thought that some might want to get on with their lives.
So perhaps A.S feel hurt, but did Wayne touch her on the breast? If he did not then he did not break the NM law. Perhaps some should read the NM law for Criminal Sexual Contact of a Minor.
Well, back to you KM, There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE of there being a waiting room outside Wayne’s house for the women. No offense but I think your imagination got a little carried away. If Wayne is perfectly honest, then he would have spoken about the waiting room. And just to tell you, there ISN’T a waiting room outside his house.
Wayne has no desire to live in prison over a lie. Like the Judge Baca said there is no evidence that there was ever a touching of the breast. Wayne also has a very fragile immune system, and he cannot eat sugars, and other foods common in the US these days, this is another reason for his request regarding the food. His fast is very simple and reasonable.
PS. I do not wish to join into the comment thread so now I will withdraw any future commenting.
HIS GIFT
We often hear from LOR of the study of the Gift, and how much they appreciated it. For those who appreciate what was called “The Gift”, a study that I used to preach in LOR, let’s take another look at it for rightly understood, it is a beautiful thing, this gift of God.
Because of the gift of Jehovah God, of His Son, to us, we have all we need for salvation. This is the gift. More is not needed. According to the inspired record, those of us living on earth, we have it, for earth was the target group.
This just means that for salvation, within that gift of justification to life, our good works (or bad ones) are all dealt with. We (LOR included) all have eternal life. There is no other way to get it. All other attempts will fail for it is an accomplished fact—“it is finished.”
This means that no man, and no church can obtain it for us. It is free. Romans 5:18:
“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
Don’t try to change it. This means that no one of us signed up for the judgment (the curse) of the first one (Adam), yet it “came upon all to their condemnation.” Right? And likewise, no one of us needed to sign up for “justification of life” to have it “pass upon us all”. I am just as sure of this fact for LORites and the others here on this blog as I am for myself. If it has failed you, then it will fail me. And if not, then it won’t fail me either.
The only danger, the only way the great fact of The Gift of salvation can become in vain to someone is if they try to obtain it some other way. Through some other man, or through some “wonderful church” or another who promises the same thing that the Savior already accomplished for us.
Those who think they have it through some modern man or another, or through some church or another will call you to join them in their worship of their particular man, or through loyalty to their church etc. And if you decline to join them, knowing your salvation is already sure, they will consider you dead, lost, of the devil. Have we seen this phenomenon in action? Wherever men congregate promising to obtain for us the future, righteousness and salvation through the keeping of their particular rules. And this is the promise (hope) of all churches and their leaders. It is a false hope for all that men need has already been provided them.
In this typical and hideous view of what men can do for you, you are an “outsiders”, unless you join them. In this view of you (that you are lost), they consider themselves loving. Loving because they don’t want to see you lost (as you are). Lost means not following their particular choice of some modern man who is deemed most godlike in all he does and says. Equal to god in his sacrifice and pronouncements.
How many men enjoy this exalted position today in the hearts and minds of their loyal followers. Some of them, no, many, have already gone to their graves this way, content to receive this sort of loyalty and worship, indeed, promulgating it. Wayne is one, and Ellen is another, though dead now. How about the pope? The list is long. LOR is not the only group that venerates a man or woman this way, not by a long shot.
Only one Man deserves the allegiance these groups give to another, and he is not in jail.
I have one question for those at Strong City which they have never addressed. If this was not about sex but for healing purposes, why weren’t there any naked male healings? There was a discussion during the trial, I believe, about 1 male having a healing but he was fully clothed. Are all the men there completely ok that they don’t need any healings? And why did the one that did need it clothed?
Oh and also, if this wasn’t about sex but healing and Wayne HAD to do what those that needed healing asked of him, why did he turn down the elderly lady (I can’t remember her name at the moment) when she asked for the “consummation”? She begged to lie naked with him and he refused. Can somebody touch on that?
To Anon:
I said a waiting room of sorts. By this I meant that in several of the postings (which are no longer available so I can’t quote verbatim), several of the women talked about waiting outside his window hoping to be called in for a “healing” session.
It could be my imagination at work but I have read as much as was available and to me that’s what it seemed like. Take it as you will!
I too am interested in Casidi’s questions being answered. It’s like two stories are going on at the same time. Healing and consummation for the young ladies and/or attractive middle aged women and nothing for the men or elderly ladies.
If Wayne’s way is the way to Heaven, a whole lot of people have missed the boat because of their sex or age. The story doesn’t jive!
Whether Wayne Bent, Tony Alamo, Mother Teresa or the Pope (I’m Catholic if some of you didn’t know) are saints makes no difference in our salvation. Holy men and women have come and gone through the ages. And not so holy men and women have been around as well. Their words of wisdom as well as words of division have never made and will never make any difference in our salvation.
For me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
KM, I know Wayne, I lived at Strong City at one time, so I know.
I guess I can see where you ideas came from now that you explain. But often times, people would go outside Wayne’s window to pray, at times he would awake and call out his window to see if anyone was there.
Wayne has publicly shared all of his doings, on his website.
Cassidi, if you would like an answer to your questions maybe you should post a comment on the strong city website, or contact the website and ask.
PS. I am not an ex-member either, I just no longer live on the physical land
Hi Anon, Actually I have tried asking that question on the Strong City site, but they never reply or post my question. I’ve asked several questions that have never been answered or posted. I’m not sure if the way I ask it sounds mean or mean spirited, which it is not meant to be, but I have sincerely asked.
I am not sure if you are aware, but whomever manages the SC website is extremely selective of what comments they allow and then remove after allowing. That is completely their right as it’s their website, but I find it disingenuous to their readers, followers and contributors. Some comments that they have disallowed were not mean or mean spirited and other comments get removed when they start to cause questions that point out inconsistencies with what SC people have said. If you would like to see a sample of postings that never made it or have been removed you can click on my name for my website where I cataloged what I could for others to be able to read what has been lost in the ether. In no way is it exhaustive of the lost posts, just what I managed to grab here and there when I saw inconsistencies.
By the way, if you could possibly forward my questions above to somebody that might answer them I’d be very appreciative. I think Mark can give you my email if you would like to send the answers to me directly.
With all respects towards the current residents of Strong City, I am willing to make the following testimony. During the times of when the young ladies were presenting themselves to Michael Travesser, the invitation was given for any and all virgins to ask Father if they were to be included in the selection process, and all who were impressed by God, were to come and do so. This period of time was for several weeks. I was there and living on the Land during this time. I read the many e-mails, and I still have many of these e-mails on my harddrive. There were two adult virgin men living there at Strong City also, and they both had asked God if they were to go and present themselves before Michael, and they both believed that God desired them to go and present themselves. And they did do just that. One of them was my then roommate T.B. also known as Aniam Travesser. Wayne Bent turned him away and sent him home. I saw the hurt look on his face when he came back. I felt very sad for my roommate, as he really wanted to be one of the virgins. Aniam also told me of another adult male virgin who also was turned away. Wayne seemed to only want young female virgins, even though the e-mails did not specify male or female. With afterthought, me thinks a male virgin slection would have saved Mr. Bent much heartache and grief. But he knew what he wanted, and Michael/Wayne always gets what he wants. The last two sentences are my opinion only.
Concerning the “Harem” of women sitting outside Michael’s window during the evening hours and their going into his dwelling to be alone with Michael, it was a common practice for other members of the land to also be sitting outside Michael’s dwelling for the purpose of praying for the “virgins” who were going in to be alone with Michael. Strong City is a very prayful place. I, along with others from Strong City often witnessed young women going into Wayne Bent’s dwelling at many different hours of the night and early morning. We were not spying on these events, but we were there praying for the events. These prayings were a common occurance in the LOR. I have personally seen up to 4 young women sitting together on Wayne’s porch steps until one of them either got the unction, nerve, or whatever the motivation to go inside to be alone with Wayne. The Two Witnesses and other LOR members have spent many evenings sitting outside Wayne Bent’s bedroom window, waiting to be allowed admittance. Often there was giggling and small talk among these young girls, as they waited to see who would be the one to be going in that night season. This happened many nights. I can, but will not provide the names of the other witnesses who were also sitting among the trees within a stone’s throw of Wayne’s dwelling. I have no desire to put any other witness on the spot, even though I know of 6 other people sitting out there in the trees praying with me. I only speak for what I seen and heard when I was there. We, the witnesses knew very well what was going on in that dwelling, and yes, these were the times when Wayne was allowing them to come into his bedroom. I hope this clarifies the questions about the virgin selection during these times at Strong City. I seriously doubt that anyone from Strong City will mention anything to me about what I have posted here on this forum, for they know that I am speaking the truth, for many of them saw me praying in those trees with them, and Aniam should well remember that evening when he returned from Wayne’s house and the conversation that he shared with me. I am simply stating the facts as I witnessed them first hand, first person. I invite serious counter discussion from anyone there who will differ with me. God also was a witness to these events.
Wayne Bent’s Hunger Strike
From KOAT.com:
More at the site,including:
It is beginning to look like those excellent pdf articles Sam referenced the other day will be part of the discussion in court.
Thank you for the update, Jan.
You are very welcome Mark!
It is quite interesting (and so very ironic) to consider that if Wayne Bent could merely be shown his own earlier writings he would learn that he spoke pointedly against doing the very thing he is doing now. I will quote from two of Wayne’s own books. As a scholastic archivist, I have both of the books, as well as hundreds of pages of his writings dating back for many, many years. The first one is from one he authored in 1988 called, His Only Gift, a really excellent book (honestly, I am really impressed this one), where he discussed the gift of salvation from trusting in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Bolded emphasis was added by me in the following.
Then in another, more recent book, which Wayne wrote in 2006 (this one after he had declared himself to be the returned Jesus), called, The Gospel of Michael, Wayne again discussed “provision.”
That first statement of Wayne, where he talks about people “going to court,” because they might not get the food they wanted is nothing short of classic irony. If only Wayne could now become a follower of his old teachings he might find salvation from his present torment.
— Sam
Response to Johnny Miller:
Actually, what really happened is that one Sabbath morning, Michael had announced to the Church that only 6 of the 7 virgins had presented themselves, and several days had gone by since the last one had been
presented. It was during that meeting that I first recalled him mentioning that male virgins could also be accepted. Upon hearing that, I suddenly had a Jonah type experience where I sensed that I was being called by God to be one of the messengers, although I didn’t feel qualified.
Later that afternoon, I shared this with Michael, and he told me that soon after the meeting, the 7th virgin had come to him, and that her testimony was clearly evident that it was of God. At first I was relieved, but then Michael talked with me about the dangers of judging what God puts on our hearts because we don’t feel a certain way. Even if it is “my opinion only,”
it is still holding on to the idea that I am smarter than God, and that can have disasterous consequences. So, the sense of dejection Mr. Miller sensed in me was not the result of rejection from Michael, but the picture of my big, fat, self-righteous self that I had to look at as a result of Michael loving me, by telling me the truth about myself.
And for the record, I didn’t know of another male virgin who had presented himself, much less was turned away.
New post by Jeff at Strong City.
Jeff gives a link to the KOAT article I mentioned and also a link to the video clip from last night’s news.
The video link does not work. Here is the correct link for anyone that wants to see the 2 minute story. It shows both Jeff and the women that apparently are living now close to the prison.
Video Link:
http://www.koat.com/video/21075516/index.html
Thank you both, Johnny and Anaiam, for responding. I am a bit confused though. There were 3 things that were spoken about by Wayne as I have read them and it seems they have changed over time, so I’m hoping one of you can help clear this up for me.
1) There is a prophecy that 7 women will take hold of one man, Wayne (according to how Wayne has interpreted that passage). This is where, I assume, the “consummations” came from and where he said it was a physical representation of the marriage of the lamb.
2) There were 7 virgins/witnesses to pour out the plagues for the end of the world prophesy. I can see that men would be allowed in this if it was separate from the above.
3) There were naked healing sessions which had nothing to do with either of the above.
The line between these 3 acts has been severely blurred, in my opinion. Most of the plague pourers, other than the underage girls, were also part of the 7 to lay hold. The girls in the healing sessions were supposed to become part of the plague pourers (I can’t remember if they were or not). Then there were just normal old healings which required the healee to become naked and vulnerable before God so that they may understand him fully, but all of the 7 to lay hold and were virgin/witnesses also went through this healing process.
If these acts were truly separate as Wayne and the SC people claim, why haven’t there been naked healings for other SC members, specifically men and elderly women. Why also did every one of the 7 to lay hold and then also the 7 virgin/witnesses go through the naked healing process? If so many people are in need of the naked and vulnerable healing wouldn’t it seem logical that some of the men would need it too?
Please don’t take this as me condemning or trying to call you out, but if you can stop for a second and see it from the outside, it really looks like grooming for sex.
First there’s this great and awesome event that a person might get to be a part of and change the world (bribing, luring, special privileges, making the person feel special). Then they are told that to be a part of that they need to be naked and vulnerable with God, whom Wayne conveniently is the son of and with the power to get them there by laying naked on his bed. Also, if they aren’t close with God, well… then… they won’t be saved with the rest of their “Family” (threatening, intimidation, fear along with gaining trust by not fully molesting the victim THIS TIME). Then TA-DA sex needs to happen to make it all come true. It’s very typical of sex offenders to play this exact script albeit without God as the main theme.
Oh and I forgot “in a position of power” in the above.
Thank you Anaiam for filling in the blanks. It is very helpful for my own understanding. You had went over to Michael’s home twice that evening, if I recall. It was the first visit over there that resulted in my observation, as you were clearly affected and emotional, maybe even a bit confused when you came back. Your determined heart was really set on being one of the virgins. I don’t remember why you went to see Michael the second time that early evening though. You were very quiet and sorta wanted to be alone, and did not open up your heart to me when you came back. And perhaps I may not recall who it was who told me about the other male virgin who was involved. I thought that it was you, but I am mistaken. For clarity I will state it was not young Dustin. I know how many minds may automatically assume that choice. It was another adult male virgin. Several years have passed now, and I had not put much thought into the virgin selection process of those days past.
Casidi, I was not present on the Land when the Strong City teaching of the seven women taking ahold of one man was really being pressed forward to the light. I have my own understanding of that passage of scripture which sort of goes along with the general Seventh-day Adventist teaching. Someone from Strong City needs to step in here and answer your request. I cannot help you. During my last days there at Strong City, the issue at hand was the pouring out of the 7 last plagues (for the third time in LOR history), and the selection of the virgins to do that act. I remember Michael literally privatey bathing the virgins as they laid on his home’s floor, and the water being collected from those baths. The Two Witnesses assisted him, if I recall. The church at large had also had a foot-washing ceremony, and that water was also collected and combined with the virgin bath water. This water was stored in barrels. This soiled grey water was the water poured from the golden basins on the hill used by Michael and the virgins.
And for the reason, there were no more nude healings done for others, male or older female, I recall Michael stating in a meeting that if we had also believed that we as members needed to have a “nude” healing encounter with “Father”, that we would have to go ahead and lie nude and privately upon our own beds and request Father to approach us “In Spirit” and heal us that way. I, for myself went ahead and do just that, as did many others in the church. Even though I did have a personal issue with all the Nude sessions going on with the seven young women, and their eventual consumations with Mr. Bent, I, at that time sort of went with the flow. It was when he had agreed to go through and do nude sessions with the underage girls, when I was troubled enough to start the process of desiring to leave the imfluence of the land and set myself aside somewhere else to be alone and reason things out. I eventually moved back to Yuma, and that resulted in my leaving of the LOR.
When KM mentioned a waiting room of sorts, one of the insiders who was there corrected her, that there was no such thing. No waiting room. They would like us all to understand that no such foolishness ever happened. This turned out to be a lie.
Okay, there was no such “room” constructed for women to wait in and men to be there praying for them as they waited to be allowed into Wayne’s presence for nudity or for sex. We know this now from another person who was also there and saw it, being a participant in it–Johnny.
The truth is now obvious, which if we didn’t have another eye witness, it would not have been. This makes these people look like intentional liars. But they are not liars. I was once one of them too. They are only acting this way because they know not how to do differently.
They knew of the mostly women who were outside in the trees, or just under Wayne’s window, waiting (with no waiting room to wait in). Why didn’t they describe the scene for us as they knew it to be? Why would they intend to mislead us?
It is a most familiar conundrum to them now. The are caught between two things; reality and what they know Wayne requires of them to look good. The sister that wrote me a few days ago described it for us. She said how often she was offended by Wayne, but then would have to give in finally. In this case, the membership would be offended at the thought of misleading us about anyone waiting in a waiting room to be called in for Wayne style “healing”. But then better to mislead than let Wayne look foolish.
As I said, these people are not typical liars, but because of mind control, even without Wayne present, they end up lying to, and misleading others. They know what will happen to them suddenly if they don’t. Wayne, the object of their affections, the venerated one must come out looking good, at all costs. This is how it works. If reality were allowed to hold sway, each member knows their little man made kingdom would all fall apart. Just that quick.
There are many interesting comments here today. I am especially intrigued by Sam pulling out some of Wayne’s own writings that completely contradict everything he and Jeff have been saying for the past several weeks. How can a man of God gotten so far off his message. Sad too, because it is understandable why he actually had so very many followers years ago. Now what does he have? Seems lies and hypocrisy are all that remain.
Johnny it is so great to have someone set the record straight a bit about the room and the women who waited to be called into Michael. How strange this all was, no wonder how some of us are having a hard time grasping it. Someone needs to write a detailed account about what really and truly happened there in the last six or seven years. Or perhaps a cooperative effort accounting. I can only imagine what we might learn.
David explains what is happening well. Now it is all about the lasting effects of the mind control of all these people. Amazing isn’t it, even with Wayne not present he still controls their every thought. And of course the ultimate goal is always that Wayne/Michael always be cast in the best light.
Johnny, when Wayne washed the virgins, did he wash the underage girls also?
Ron,
No, he did not wash the underage girls.
Hope,
I have written an auto-biography called, “THE FOLLOWER- AN ACCOUNT OF CULT ADDICTION”. It is in the final stages of being released, hopefully this week I will be receiving the final proof copy for approval, and then we will be entering into the Marketing phase of the publishing. I believe it will be sold in all the Barnes and Nobles Book stores. It will also be avialable on Amazon.com. We are also planning a release in Great Britain and South Africa. It will be published by Green Street Publishers out of the Dallas ,TX area. My Publisher has already spoken about my book on some outlets already. This book pretty covers my life from start to today and covers my Cult memberships in pretty good detail. I do not go into great detail, but I do cover the last years that I was in the LOR, including the last seven years through Wayne’s trial. I am the only former member of the LOR who has written a book. It will give you the reader an inside look on Cult life through my eyes. I have lived a very interesting life. I will post more on my book as it becomes avialable. It should be released any day.
Hello Cassidi, You are correct here, in that, the 7 women from Isaiah 4(the verse you quoted) and the 7 messengers are separate. Wayne called a meeting with the young people in the land including one young man, and shared with them his vision about 7 messengers to pour out the 7 last plagues. At this time no one (including Wayne) knew anything about the laying naked and healings. Wayne told these young people to pray and ask God if they were to be one of the 7 messengers, and which on they were to be. And this is exactly what happened.
The 7 women laying hold of one man, were literal physical consummations, that have occurred over the years of the covenant from 2000-2008.
All this waiting room stuff has been blown way out of proportion.
Often times people regardless of age or gender go and pray outside of Wayne’s window, night or day, (praying for whatever was on their heart)
All of the 7 messengers laid naked or skin to skin with Michael, you may their testimonies about it, and why they did it, they wrote it themselves on travesser.info
There were reasons why those that laid naked with Michael did, and not everyone needed it. It is not Strong City’s doctrine that you gain points with God when you lay naked with Michael.
Some of the ex-members have stated that in a subtle way Wayne told the girls they had to lay naked with him, this is false. Wayne spoke of being naked with GOD, not HIM. he was referring to an experience with God. I know what it looks like from the outside as does all of the Strong City family. But when you know a person who is perfectly honest and hides nothing, yo can tell wether they are a sex pervert.
It was not Wayne who asked or told the women of Strong City that the needed to do anything. It was all of God.
Cassidi, in your last paragraph you are incorrect, it never is never has been and never will be that way.
I do not want to answer questions on here forever and ever.
Hope, Strong City has written thousands of posts you may read
Watch Experiencing The Finshed Work on strongcity.info
It tells allot of the story, Another good one that explains everything is A Breif Video Statement
Anon, Thanks for your comments. May I ask why you don’t leave on the land? If you prefer not to answer, that’s okay.
And I would really like to read the Strong City posts but I thought they had all been taken down so that only those with actual ties to SC can read them. Would you please provide a link or place to start looking? I don’t like to make statements that are not correct but without the documents in front of me I’m only going on memory and at my age that can sometimes be a problem.
Oops, that should be “live” not “leave”. Old eyes too!
KM
I have not had a chance to make sure everything is still working in this cached archive site but everything I have clicked on so far has opened hopefully this will give you a good place to start. http://www.strongcityinfo.com/archives.html
KM, There are believers in Michael all over the world, we do not believe you have live on the Strong City property.
I do not live on the land simply because I do not choose too. Very Simple
Nice to see that they (on Strongcity.info cloned my exact archives page that I formerly had up on the “Strongcity2” mirror site (including my little illustrations). Glad to see that (they cloned the cloner… funny).
However, I have a lot more blow-away archival pages and they are in much better shape (more readable format) than my old (google cache) pages which they are displaying. I will now put those up for public access. I have some which will give you the full clear picture of the sexual ministry (which they love to deny and hide) and others showing Wayne’s blatant claims to being, not just “a” son of God, but “The” Son of God, the returning Christ, something that he really misrepresented in trial testimony and continued to do in documents post trial (said he couldn’t understand why the media was making so much out of that… but, you’ll know why).
Might take me a day to get those into proper order (with a nice menu format), but it will be worth it for you to get the full picture.
— Sam
Sam –
There was an essay in which Wayne explained his justification for TWO witnesses which read something to the effect that one was just ordinary and more than two was too much like a harem.
If you could find that writing (it was in discussions about the Witnesses) – I think it’s incredibly ironic . . . .
Hi EMC – Yes, I have that “harem” one. This will be in the grouping of documents which I will display, perhaps tomorrow. But, here it is for your enjoyment.
Here was another interesting one that he wrote in a similar vein.
Later, of course, he did exactly what he had said in that quote that he wouldn’t do. I’m sure those two old cougars (and then he couldn’t resist and it went to three) started getting a bit tiresome and he started thinking about something bit fresher… who could blame him, seeing all those virginal girls coming of legal age and everyone of them actually worshiping him? That power he was frightened about using, obviously became too much of a temptation. Too bad he got a bit greedy and decided to include some even younger ones in the mix. Of course, he did put the brakes on (give him some credit)… just not soon enough to stop the legal ramifications (but, his calling off the sex slated for them is why I think a six month sentence would be more suitable).
And here is another irony… had they presented what he did the way I just described (that he did stop the sexual process planned for those underage girls), I think that a light sentence would have been inevitable. Instead they went the “healing” route… which just doesn’t pass the old smell test.
Incidentally, all those docs from my archives they are showing on their site… those are many of the ones their attorney fought to keep out of the trial. It’s a weird, weird world.
— Sam
Judge puts fasting cult leader in doctor’s hands
KOB Reports:
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1155564.shtml?cat=500
Sam, I read the law for 2nd Degree Felony of Criminal Sexual Contact of a Minor. It says “shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of three years, which shall not be suspended or deferred.”
I’m not sure that an ankle monitor or other method of monitoring would fulfill the minimum sentence. Do you have any thoughts on that subject?
Of course, if the case is dismissed, or remanded for a new trial or re-sentencing or God forbid he dies in the interim from his ill timed fast (in the middle of his appeal), all this speculation would be moot.
Definitely strange! The very same documents that the Judge wouldn’t allow because of time (the prosecution was restricted time wise as well as the defense). Or was it some other reason (I can’t remember)? Interesting!!!
Judge Rules In Favor Of Force Feeding Imprisoned Cult Leader
KOAT has an interesting article on the hearing today:
http://www.koat.com/money/21095488/detail.html
And lastly, for now … here is a link to KOAT TV’s video coverage of today’s hearing. It shows Wayne Bent on the stand.
http://www.koat.com/video/21096860/index.html
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/video/web_extras/webextra_krqe_los_lunas_nm_wayne_bent_defends_his_hunger_strike_200909240006
Great footage, Wayne on the stand.
I was very pleased to see some of the women in the video looked fuller in the face and more rounded out. This means they are eating, and that’s a good thing.
Oddly, Bent’s testimony showed that it was not about religion at all, but the quality of the diet and his not enjoying being incarcerated. He said that the previous administrators “got it right” with a proper balance of protein and variety of item choices and then the management changed. He said that he had met with the warden of the new administration about his discontent with his food and after those meetings for a few days his trays were just fine, then they were done wrong again. It became obvious that he was “striking” for better food (either from the prison or to be catered in from his own sources). He sadly explained that he also missed associating with his friends and family from outside the prison (of course, his fellow inmates share that sentiment). So instead of this being about those lofty purposes of protesting being wrongly convicted for religious reasons, he reduced his striking demands to wanting, first of all, better quality meals and, secondly, being restored to having relationships with his “family,” which would probably be the wishes echoed by all prisoners.
I’m sure the judge had a very easy time ruling on this one.
Odd that Jeff was emphatic about the hearing being open so Wayne’s words could be heard by all. As Sam has pointed out this was about the administration changing, failure to provide a consistent acceptable diet and lack of time with family & friends. Compare the video with what he expounded at length on in his My Crown of Thornspost on August 31, 2009.
I am sure the judge had never heard or seen a situation like this one in his courtroom! Once again religion is being used in my opinion falsely. I am sure the supporters of Wayne won’t see it that way, but after listening to his testimony yesterday I just don’t see how it can be anything but a fast for a special catered diet.
But at least Wayne can now say he was heard in court.
Thanks to all for posting the links to new stories so quickly after they appear on the ‘net.
Some great discussions continue to evolve here. Thank you for thoughtful contributions.
The point I see here, is that the prison system conveniently changes the agreements. Michael spoke at the first about the trial and how it was based on religious convictions, but the state overrode his religious convictions and made him a criminal when no crime had been committed. He said there was an agreement before the trial to not bring up certain religious items but they were brought in anyway. It was a trial about his religious convictions before God and how the state says you cannot worship God that way — even if no crime was committed. Then after his incarceration the prison system refuses to feed him properly even though the warden agreed to. Michael’s testimony is an exposure of the falsity of the charges and the hypocrisy of the system, and largely an exposure of agreements not kept. The system conveniently changes to suit the whims of whoever it chooses when it chooses. The “justice” of the system is not based on morality, law or agreements. Who can a person trust?
Could Michael trust the lawyers or judge? No! Could he trust the warden? No! Should he be expected to play along like everything is OK? No! That is the point. He can trust his friends though.
CAN WAYNE TRUST HIS FRIENDS
One of Wayne’s friends asks us:
“Could Michael trust the lawyers or judge? No! Could he trust the warden? No! Should he be expected to play along like everything is OK? No! That is the point. He can trust his friends though.”
The answer is no. Ironically, Wayne knows that he has no one to trust.
Oh sure, he knows his friends will do what he says. He knows they will try to make him look good, no matter what it takes. He knows they can be trusted to change everything he does into something else, something other than what it is. Fornication isn’t fornication, fasting for catered food isn’t fasting for catered food. Sex isn’t sex. If he says he is like a good physician who wouldn’t think a sexual thought while examining “healing/consummating”, then they know to promote that whenever they can. No matter how offensive to their mind at first, they soon buy it and begin to sell it us. The sister said it has happened to her a million times I think it was.
Given this situation, created by our man Wayne, why do I say he cannot trust his friends? As I described it, he knows what to expect from them as well as I do; they are not going to tell him the truth either. They are going to tell him what he they think he wants to hear, and he knows he can spin it better than they.
The irony of the situation is that the Bent family can trust the judge and the others to do what they say, do their job. The ones that Wayne cannot trust are those whose minds he has taken.
Hitler had the same problem; his men know not to tell him the truth on pain of his wrath. I once built buildings for such a man. He had me call his bank for him one day, knowing it would not speak to Lotfi Abbu…. When I relayed to him what they said, it infuriated him. I had to hang up before he attacked me for repeating their answers to his questions.
My friend Lotfi (we called him lefty for short), Hitler and Wayne have all dug themselves into the same hole. As for truth, none of these men could trust their best friends. It’s called mind control.
Some here probably stand aghast at this, wondering how a people could get themselves into such a condition. Actually, this is not so rare a phenomenon as one might think. I could bring it closer to home for those of us who might be experiencing it even now. The problem, those involved in it do not welcome having it revealed for them.
Oh sure, Jeff fancies himself the only one who can tell Wayne the truth. This, he reasons, for hasn’t he attempted it in the past? The answer, NO, Not really, not much. A feeble attempt on occasion, okay. And how far did it get him?
Like the others, Jeff is relegated to repeating the same spin his dad would put on it. For instance, he has just said something like, “I would rather my dad die than be poked with tubes and hoses into his body.” So we see that as for truth, as for his mind being given up to another, he has not escaped that particular experience. It’s just as far gone as the others. And to get it back would cost him the same as it would the others—his man–god, and his church—salvation. Not really, as we know, but that is what he/they believe.
It would only be for a short time, the poking of his dad’s body. Then he would begin to eat their food or juices again. Would Jeff prefer his dad dead rather than to endure a few days of tubes, if that?
No. Jeff is not telling us the truth. And how do I know this? As soon as dad is taking sustenance again, Jeff will be quite happy to see him healthy. Then Jeff will begin to spin it for us again, to look like the judge, the guards, the warden and the lawyers all caved in to his dad’s wishes. Jeff will glory again in triumph.
Wayne distorting the truth…. again
As usual Wayne Bent has twisted the truth, And now Milton does it (as a typical follower).
The prosecution from their opening statement and throughout the trial said that it was not about religious beliefs, but instead about someone in authority abusing their power and committing the illegal act of improper touching. It was the defense attorney who worked hard to try to present it as about violation of religious freedom and to put Wayne Bent’s religion on trial.
That approach was done throughout the trial. For the prosecution ignore that Bent was a religious leader in authority would have been improper (that would apply to any generic religious leader). There was no pre-trial agreement not to do that and such a position did not put the principles of the religion on trial. The prosecution emphasized over and over that this trial wasn’t about religion, but about illegal acts. But then, the Defense did try repeatedly to make it about religion. In her opening statement she said:
And in the trial itself, it was again the defense which wanted this about religious freedom and that is how they presented the case. And, remarkably, it was Wayne, himself, who made it about his religion. Look at this exchange in the prosecution cross examination:
In the concluding statements you can see easily which side wanted this to be about putting Bent’s religion on trial. It was not the prosecution. They wanted to stay away from this being about religion and instead to be about illegal touching. The defense wanted to put Bent’s religion on trial.
And then the defense tried hard to make it about their unique religion.
So, Wayne (and Milton) simply would like to re-write the history (lie) about what happened in the trial. But, the truth is exactly the opposite from what is being said by Wayne (sound familiar?). The prosecution made the trial, not about religion at all, but focused on one thing… was there an illegal touching of an intimate part. The jury said, “yes.” The defense (and Bent himself) tried to make the trial about the freedom of their unique religion to do any practice they wanted to and to say that the law had no jurisdiction about a religious behavior of nude sessions with under-age girls.
So is Bent lying now? Is he mentally ill? Has he lost his memory? Perhaps it is one of those.
— Sam
Sam, I have always felt that Wayne was mentally ill. If he claimed to be Napoleon instead of Christ, he would be in the mental ward.
MENTAL, FORGETFUL, LYING
Sam asks a good question. I think one that many here have wondered about. Just what is it that is going on in the mind of Wayne? Does he realize what he says and does? Does he recognize a lie when it is being told? Does he know what he is doing as he does it, or does he really think it is something else? After or even while he is doing something, he describes it as something else entirely, something more acceptable and people naturally wonder which it is. Does he know or not? Here is how Sam asked it?
“So is Bent lying now? Is he mentally ill? Has he lost his memory? Perhaps it is one of those.”
I will attempt to answer these questions. I think I qualify for this, for I was his former best friend and closest associate. I have never considered him God, or something close, which gives me a unique perspective as compared with all his other associates.
It would seem that if he were lying, he would not be mentally ill, or have a loss of memory, but no, the answer is yes to all the above. He is lying, he is mentally ill, and he conveniently losses his memory. Because of his view of the “voice” he claims to hear, for all practical purposes, his memory is gone.
LYING. Does he know he is lying? Yes, he knows it as well as we do. But in his mind, it is not really a lie for he is following the instructions that he says are so clearly laid out for him from his “voice”/God. If he didn’t believe he had this voice telling him what to do, then it would be a lie. Bit Oh, what a bitter pill to confess one day that his voice/god was mistaken. Better to lie and protect all that the voice has led him to do in the past.
MENTAL ILLNESS. We know that those who do the most foolish things due to a voice they hear are mentally ill. This, no matter how many others they persuade to agree with them. The others that agree with you only serve to do you damage, as we see in this case.
MEMORY LOSS. It looks suspiciously like memory loss, given the now familiar rewrite of both recent and prior history. Actually, it is not so much memory loss as it is the spin you have to put on it to make it acceptable in your present context. But the context changes for you, depending. One day, it’s not about religion, the next it is. Depends on what you calculate will serve you best. For the cult leader and his followers, reality changes from moment to moment. It is your job to make it change, to change it, while making sense of it as best you can. If you are a follower, however Wayne or Jeff changes reality in the moment, you nod your head in full agreement. You can even take it from there and run with it yourself as we see happen here on such a regular basis.
This inhumane demonstration of an emotionally disturbed person flailing around on the outskirts of sanity, trying to keep some last bit of control in a totally crazy situation, is one of the most heart breaking things I have seen. It goes to show that in the end we all stand alone with nothing more then the record that we, ourselves have written. No paid representative, no friend or family, covetous of some trinket of self substantiation, is able to make the obvious what it isn’t. Wayne, for all practical purposes has just been declared incompetent to make his own decisions. It is time for those that love him to step forward and try to get him the help that is really needed.(not a better lawyer) If you don’t, it is likely that not even an inkling of the one you loved will emerge. Despite the challenges to be faced even as a convicted sex offender, life is worth living, for the one willing to change.
HELP FOR WAYNE
Those who hope for help for Wayne and his devoted followers are hoping for something good. But they don’t realize what they ask for. They don’t really grasp the mind of our man Wayne. If they did, they would know that for Wayne Bent, help is not coming. How can I make such a claim? I know him and for two other reasons.
One, for help to come, the voice would have to go. How many imagine help could arrive with the voice intact?
And two, help already came. It came in the best form that Wayne could want—cause and effect. How often have I heard young mothers describe for him how it wasn’t their children’s fault, what happened to them—sickness, death, molestation, how they were born. And how often have I heard our man assure them that it was—the children’s fault. I won’t go into his reasoning here, but suffice it to say that he entertained no other cause for it all than the children themselves.
Now it is for him to learn the same lesson. that he did this, the very thing he doesn’t like. Now it is for him to stop blaming it all on others. This is the best help that he could ask for. If, in his mind, the children caused what happened to them, our man certainly caused his predicament.
Can he learn it? He could, but will he? Not likely for it would not be so automatic. He could not say one day, out of the blue that now he understands. He could not say something like this without admitting that he had been wrong for so long about cause and effect and what he told all those young mothers and everybody else who would listen.
There once was a very loving older man in attendance to the church in which we were then members. He had another wonderful friend who had designed a black box that somehow, scientifically generated electricity. The old man told us that men had plugged things into it and they ran. There were meetings in which government officials were amazed and in support of it. The president knew about it. The box had to be kept hidden because the powers that be would have destroyed it. Our friend begged us for money to give his friend the box maker who needed it most urgently at that particular time (about 1975). If we helped get it off the ground, western civilization would never be the same again. He offered to put his house up for collateral if something ever went wrong, no matter what it was.
Well, something did go wrong, perhaps it was that we did not give the money. After all these years, I have never seen one of those boxes in use.
Our man Wayne has something better than a box, he has a voice. A voice, you don’t really have to produce it, just say you heard it when no one else was listening. We know what it supposedly says, but Wayne would not like me to try to copy it. He would say that was mocking. Only he gets to repeat it. It is for the rest of us to believe it, do what it says.
David I honestly believe your last post finally explains this whole crazy religion and Wayne’s actions. All 3 “crazy, memory loss and lying,” are part of Wayne’s world. It would seem he goes in and out of all three whenever it is convenient. And because the people around him have completely lost all independent thoughts on their own, they just do whatever he wants and say whatever is necessary to project the new truth of the day.
I like how you say reality for the cult leader changes even moment to moment it would seem. And it is their job to take it and spin it the best they can. They just are so lost in Michael’s world that they have no clue. I think I am beginning to understand them all a bit more though, finally!
I still am not exactly sure what the point was of all this? There is no way they thought it would accomplish what they intended and it set things back for Wayne I would think in the prison environment and perhaps even with the Courts.
I just made a post on my personal blog, which was inspired by a recent David Mead’s post in this thread. I am posting it here as well, simply because this is where the conversation is (and so you don’t have to go there to read it).
Analyzing sychophancy
David Mead’s presentation about Wayne’s friends not being really friends to him is especially perceptive. How Bent was able to reduce his followers down to a group of fawning sycophants and parasites is also worthy of examination.
Wayne simply went through a winnowing process in eliminating those who offered him guidance and warnings that he was going down the wrong path. Those such as David Mead, Tim Bowman and Allen Armstrong and others tried to reach him, but found that they were removed from the group before they could influence remaining members any further. One by one, when people came to him and told him that what he was suggesting or the course of action he was following were not scriptural, he simply “dis-fellowshipped” them (“pack your stuff, you’re gone”). It was a reverse evolutionary process in which the perceptive and caring and communicative members were slowly eliminated, leaving only those who would show Wayne complete and unquestioning loyalty. What he was left with were four kinds of people who would not oppose him in his acts, even though what he was doing or saying often violated the very principles of their Christian religious foundations. In addition they would not question what he said or wrote, even though it contradicted facts that they knew or reversed positions he had taken in the past or was diametrically opposed to the scriptures they said they were following.
First, those who were (and are) evil themselves and enjoyed being a part of a what was really a “new age” religion (open sex, destruction of loving marital relationships, violation of biblical principles with a generous addition of astrology mixed with arcane ancient mystical writings). Probably they were primary influences in warping or reinforcing (or inspiring) Wayne’s demonic thinking and convincing him that what he was doing was divinely inspired (the two witnesses and perhaps his daughter-in-law seem to fit that category). Just read that “Finished Work booklet to gain perspective of how the “two witnesses” had Wayne’s ear and were actually the authors of much of his “new” religion and took over much of the leadership of the weaker members after they became Wayne’s concubines (sex partners). Maybe the silver-tongued Gabriel is one of these as well (we heard him lie on the witness stand).
Two, naive misfits who had become so vulnerable through their own life experiences (Allasso seems to fit this category, as well as some of the young ladies who had been sexually abused earlier), because of tragedies, failures and rejection that they were ready to cling to anything which allowed them to belong, to be accepted, even if it meant leaving all logic behind. “You are wanted. You are needed. You are accepted,” is a common mantra in Wayne’s message to this kind of follower.
Three, those who were so sheltered from the outside world (like Esther, Healed and maybe Danielle), probably from early childhood, growing up inside the cult (and groomed constantly) so that they simply were programmed as believers in the only reality they had ever known. These are the ones who truly believe that Wayne is the returning Christ and that laying naked with him was being in the presence of God. For them, Wayne could make new rules and new principles and could not lie, so that any distortion of the facts becomes acceptable (using logic, such as, in the old testament Hosea married a prostitute and Moses committed murder, therefore God can make sins become permissible) or because Wayne is now God a lie can miraculously now be transformed into the truth (like when he testifies in court or writes that he wasn’t the leader or that he didn’t ever claim to be the actual Messiah or that the laying naked was unrelated to his, “Vision” of consummating with all those virgins). If Wayne says it… they accept, it’s true, because to them he is God incarnate.
Four, those who were locked into a state of financial dependence (living rent free with food and clothing provided on what is essentially a wealthy man’s estate) where the thought of leaving that material wealth behind was just more than they had the character or moral fiber to do. And so they learned just to shut up and not make waves or to offer standard lines of total support and compliments for whatever Wayne said or did. Some of those most likely came in while what was going on was actually quite legitimate (Wayne’s early writings are wonderfully true to Christianity and very well done). But, after they had given up all their possessions and become dependent after many years, they probably felt locked into an untenable situation which they couldn’t (in their minds) afford to leave and so they began to compromise their own consciences just to physically survive. Jeff Bent probably fits this category in a special definition. He is the heir. I think that he still has enough of his wits about him to realize that what his Dad is doing (and has done) does not meet any criteria of logic or sanity, but he knows that if he hangs on there is a lot to gain financially from the private Bent Family trust. Police often ask the question in a murder, “Who would stand to gain by this death?” Jeff was the one who was most encouraging for Wayne to go all the way with this fast and for him to be allowed to die (he was protesting the life saving tactics which would be employed to save Wayne’s life). That’s very suspicious. Ahh… the lure of riches can do strange things to a man.
There is a lot of overlap in these varied groups (and probably some other profiles that I haven’t considered) so that the message of “You are needed. You are accepted” plays across the different situational categories. Seeing others who were long term members (and their close friends and associates) booted out for creating some dissension or questioning the “divine ruler” will cause lots of anxiety. When you are afraid to face the outside world, the message that, “You are secure. You are wanted” is a very powerful controlling device in a climate where the absolute leader has the ultimate authority to remove you on a whim.
Much of this kind of undying loyalty and sycophantic behavior I have seen previously in the cadre of those who are part of the entourage of the extremely wealthy who have allowed their power and resources to corrupt their judgement and their morality. The term “yes men (and women)” applies so well. Sexual domination of the attractive women (and sometimes men) in those groups parallels Bent’s “religion” almost exactly. It’s take-your-pick if you are totally in control and everyone goes along who wishes to stay a member of the inner circle.
The end result of having reduced your followers down to a flock of people who, for whatever reason, won’t tell you that what you are doing is evil or insane puts you into a position of having no friends at all (as David Mead so aptly stated). And as that old saying goes, “With friends like that, who needs enemies?”
— Sam
David, pay attention. Wayne doesn’t have a mind. The N.M. corrections department medical staff will decide if Wayne is thinking correctly and should they decide he is not than they have the means to make an adjustment. If he doesn’t straighten his act up he may not even know that he believed in such a notion as cause and effect. It’s time for Jeff and his sisters to step in here and contribute in a helpful way if they can, instead of feeding this civil rights/torture BS.
I don’t mean to be rude, but alot of these posts here are like chapters, and I just don’t have the time to read it’s entirety. Any possible way we can sum up our thoughts perhaps in a shorter version? Then link lengthy chapter like posts to a personal blog?
I like to read the information but not in chapters. Sorry. Thank you.
One of the things that jumped out at me:
“Three, those who were so sheltered from the outside world (like Esther, Healed and maybe Danielle), probably from early childhood, growing up inside the cult (and groomed constantly) so that they simply were programmed as believers in the only reality they had ever known”
Two of the three HAVE lived on the outside world, one having lived with extended family that had no connections to the outside world. I know for fact that Danielle lived with family for some time, away from SC. Healed has had opportunity to be out of strong city for months now as well, so they have had exposure to the outside. They have known a life without the confines of SC or WB. Esther on the other hand, has not. I believe she stated at one point that her time in the hospital last spring was the most she had been away from SC.
That meant to read no connections to SC. **
Sam’s post on this subject was a nice compliment to David’s earlier ones. There is really very little Sam left out. It was quite complete and very well written. We are so fortunate to have several contributors here that are such gifted writers.
I have had a very hard time understanding why these people turn a blind eye to all of the lies and contradictions that come out of Mr. Bent’s mouth and from his writings. It has not made much sense for people who appear from their writings to be rather intelligent, and yet they continually accept new lies and deceptions as the truth.
The four categories now show exactly who these people are and why they are either unable or unwilling to use any independent thinking anymore. And some as Sam shows are truly just as evil as their master.
Thank you Sam for enlightening us again with an excellent post and for the inspirational thoughts of David as well.
Stephanie – your point is well made about two of those three living in the outside world (I stand corrected if I gave a wrong impression that they never had any outside world contact… sorry for any miscommunication). Of course, the same phenomenon (of having a mind screened from normal influences) can occur even without someone actually being in residence off in a secluded compound. I have seen entranced followers of many strange causes who were simply raised in households where the children were spoon-fed an alternate reality. I think some of that may have happened to a lot of the current members of StrongCity earlier in their lives.
And… your point about posts being too long. That was a good one too. Thank you, Stephanie. I’ll take your advice on my future posts (I agree…. better to have them snappy and to the point).
— Sam
Excellent post, Sam. I thought about Howard Hughes and Elvis, and how their devoted inner circle allowed these folks to live outside of reality and in the long run helped bring them down.
It’s nice to see than someone understood what I was trying to say—Sam. I was beginning to wonder about it. And then when he says it, and also enlarges on it, everybody suddenly understands it. So it seems we have a working system.
THE ROOF CAVED IN
We were camping one day, the family and I as we often did back then, and Jeff was with us, as he often was. During the night we were awakened by Jeff’s distressed voice. He was sleeping in one of those camper style beds where the roof is only three of four feet above your head. He said, “David, were in trouble, you have to do something.”
What’s the trouble, I said.
“The roof is caving in on us.”
He was trying to hold it up. I told him not to worry about it, that it would not come down any lower than it was. That seemed to satisfy him and he slept the rest of the night out just fine.
Since the “split” and during it, there were plenty of times that I spoke with Jeff and others, and they saw the problem in its clarity. But then, after coming into proximity to Wayne, all they had seen just dwindled away. “The problem” was that Wayne had turned against me for whatever reason, not me against him, as he portrayed it. At the time, I was no writer. He had that all tied up. I had no voice.
They like to refer to it as the split as we have noticed here. Actually, what happened was that me and about half of us just left. No split ever took place. We did not split and reform, as prophesied by “Michael and the good angels.”
We have gone back to reality, as it turned out. At the time, it seemed we were leaving heaven, cast down to earth as only Wayne could describe it. That was the fantasy in which they still believe.
It took real courage to leave heaven, the church of God and salvation, all your friends. How would you like to give up heaven and eternal life?
I’m not going to be well liked here and more than likely will be made fun of but I love Michael and I hope he is free. I do not believe he hurt anyone and believe people came to him on their own. I believe he went to prison and was punished because he said he is Messiah.
I am not here to debate my belief. Just need to make that clear because I won’t debate it. I’ve been reading about this for years and I know how I feel. Thank you.
Ruth, we all respect your right to your opinion. It is great to live in a place where you can express what you feel.
Ruth, I want to thank you for posting your thoughts on this blog. At times, the sincerity of a blog comment might be questioned. Your words strike me as quite sincere. And I would think that anyone with a genuine interest in understanding this story would not feel compelled to “make fun of” you. Again, thanks for sharing and, ultimately, enriching the experience here.
Ruth wrote: “I’m not going to be well liked here and more than likely will be made fun of but I love Michael and I hope he is free.”
No one will make any fun of you for loving Michael. NO one ever loved him more than I. True, we would like to see him free to, but not just from his cage. Free of his deceptions of himself. And free of the cause and effect that put him there.
Well said, Mark, Ron and David I honestly believe that everyone has a right to express themselves and believe whatever they want to about anyone and anything. And as Ron said,
Please consider posting here again Ruth. It might help all of us to understand Michael and his followers better. Through open communication and heartfelt discussions come compromise. The key to the world is “compromise!”
Ruth, no one would like to see Michael (Wayne) to be free more than I. I am repulsed by the actions of the cruel Judge who sentenced him to such a harsh sentence, which his minor criminal actions didn’t warrant (and I don’t think he is a criminal, but instead mentally ill). On my personal blog, I wrote an essay called, “Free Wayne Bent!” So, I’m with you, at least in part.
Now I don’t think his actual conviction by the jury was based on his claim to “Messiah” (instead, they seemed to react to what they believed was his violation of the specific New Mexico law regarding inappropriate touching). However, I do believe that the Judge did make exactly such a distinction. The only explanation I can fathom (for such an excessive sentence) is that he allowed his own religious allegiance to influence him and he punished Wayne for those off-beat sexual activities which Bent claimed to have been ordered by God. In my opinion the Judge went beyond what was legal or moral. My hope for Wayne was that he could have spent a year or so in a mental institution where he might have been able to get some help for his delusions.
So, Ruth, you may indeed be well liked here. While many don’t share your faith in Michael as a spiritual leader, you will discover that many of us will defend your right to express what you believe without being “made fun of.”
— Sam
That is the key to this for me, Wayne as a spiritual leader, is what I just cannot accept. As another human being I have compassion for him and certainly do believe that the judge imposed a sentence that was completely out of line for the laws that he broke.
I also feel compassion for the people that follow this man as their leader. They are all in my opinion misguided but still they deserve our prayers. It is also understandable how distressed they are over a loved one being away from them.
None of this for me condones this senseless fast. I just have no understanding of why anyone would do this, especially not as there is an Appeal that has been set in motion. I can’t help but wonder if they are possibly feeling the Appeal might not stand a chance. That is the only reason I can quite fathom for Wayne to in a sense try to end his own life.
David Mead said, “It took real courage to leave heaven, the church of God and salvation, all your friends.”
“By thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Jesus
As you have said, so be it unto you.
Come on Milton. I see you are still Wayne’s Hatchet man. I see you haven’t changed since the last time I knew you. You haven’t changed a bit. Why be so judgemental in slinging around scriptures like this? Why not be a man of few words and pray for those who you persee as against you and your thinking? Who are you? I remember very well who you are and your sucker punch tactics. This last comment of yours is not a reflection of the True Master’s feelings and and not a reflection of love and tolerance. You do not know the heart of Mr. Mead in the slightest. You have done more to drive out any true convert to the original LOR teachings than any other man, mainly by your own example. This mind set does not help your old friend Wayne Bent in the slightest. He needs prayer and sound advice, not a blowhorn condeming the whole of humanity. God is big enough to fight his own battles. He doesn’t need you slipping around in the shadows with your cheap shots.
I am sorry Mark, I just had to get this off my chest. The scriptures say, “Be angry, but sin not.”
Former LOR member:
Why didn’t you offer the exact same advice to those who disagree with Michael Travesser? It seems to fit a lot of the posts. Calling someone insane and condemning them to live with the insane when they have not been found insane, seems awfully judgmental.
What I said is the True Master’s feelings. He said it. I just quoted Him. I believe those words apply to everyone.
I am not slipping around in the shadows. I signed my name. Who is in the shadows now?
“At any rate, I believe that A.S. was being honest about not being touched sexually, and where the kiss was at is something no one will ever be sure of. Regardless I still feel Wayne Bent is serving and extreme amount of time in comparison with other offenders. That’s obvious.”
Jane & Ruth,
It’s nice to hear from someone who can actually think and reason. The wailing mob is so easily led along by their masters, who can do something as simple as make a film portraying a man in a certain devious manner. After that, it doesn’t take long for their minions to follow along like salivating dogs, eagerly repeating the mantra of their leaders.
According to the laws of the land and on its most basic level, Wayne Bent was imprisoned for being a child molester. The charges against Mr. Bent were not “grooming” as many people suggest he was doing, or for having multiple wives as others complain about. By the letter of the law these issues cannot be applied.
The white elephant in the room is this; to this very date, no person claims to have been sexually molested by Mr. Bent. Neither of the State’s primary witnesses (A.S or L.S) testified that Wayne Bent molested them in any manner. Neither claimed to have been fondled on the breast or on the pubic area. How can one be guilty of sexual molestation when none of a persons private areas have been touched, fondled or violated?
Many a lunatic belches out the notion that A.S. was touched on the breast by Wayne. This was the crux of the hole case against Mr. Bent and was heavily pushed by the District Attorney. I was at the trial and listened in wonder as A.S, (who truly was “groomed” by DA Emilio Chavez) said Mr. Bent “kissed” her breast. I watched as A.S pointed to some vague area of her upper body in response to Mr. Chavez’s request to demonstrate where she was “kissed”.
While at the trial, it seemed Mr. Bent would be sent to prison by this smooth talking charlatan (Mr. Chavez), because of the way the prosecution’s team made the jury believe that a sexual act had occurred.
However, many months before the trial was held, I was just a few feet away from A.S. at her workplace, when A.S. told her grandmother and aunt that the only reason she used the word “breast” when speaking to the authorities during the preliminary investigation, was that she didn’t know what to call the clavicle or sternum areas.
No one but God knows if that punitive “kiss” ever occurred, as it is simply a case of one woman’s word against Mr. Bent’s. So the man who has offended many is serving 10 years in prison; now refusing to eat the poisoned food of the State, and has only one person claiming that Mr. Bent may have inadvertently touched the very edge of her breast while he prayed for her. Seriously bystanders, was this an act of child molestation? No, this was justice, American style, ushered on by those who used to call him “Friend”.
Thank you Milton for sharing your faith with us. Just a point of clarification: The faith that Jesus condemns us, Milton did not originate it. Milton wrote:
“David Mead said, “It took real courage to leave heaven, the church of God and salvation, all your friends.” “By thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Jesus. As you have said, so be it unto you.
This is Miltons’s faith, which of course is not his own, but that of LOR. And where did LOR get it—from the one they revere and venerate—Wayne Bent. According to LOR belief, Wayne, as messiah/God is not wrong in whatever he says. Never has been. In their worship of this man as God, they must believe everything he has ever said.
Before messiah gave them this faith, they didn’t believe that the Savior came to condemn us this way. But Wayne told them who would be lost–those who would not accept his various proclivities with multiple partners (women).
LOR members were offended at first (as the sister described it for us), but soon, like Milton, they accepted his doctrine. Then we who declined to bow to his various fornications (called consummations which had to be repeated until God was satisfied), we were then considered lost for not accepting it.
This requirement for avoiding condemnation did not come from Jesus of course, but from LOR (Wayne). LOR who Milton speaks for has the two of them confused.
Jesus said, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
“A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
“But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Matthew 12:34-37
I believe Jesus and what He said. This has nothing to do with a supposed LOR doctrine.
David spoke out of the abundance of his heart when he said, “It took real courage to leave heaven, the church of God and salvation, all your friends.” This is the faith of David Mead. I just agreed with him.
This “courage” of David Mead to leave heaven, happened 20 years ago. It had absolutely nothing to do with any supposed fornications on the part of Wayne at that time. But it did have a lot to do with David’s activities at that time with other women in Europe and at home. David was offended when Wayne confronted him about it. If David had accepted the council of God and left his forays into the lives of other women (some of whom were married) behind he would not be speaking as he does now. Now David has a soap box to stand on so he can point the finger at Wayne and try to make what God has given Messiah to do appear to be what he was venturing into 20 years ago.
I have not forgotten what happened back then so easily as you have David. I talked to you personally and many others about it. I remember it very well. I was in all the secret meetings too. I heard it all and it is burned into my brain. I listened to how you and others tried desperately to wiggle out of what happened by changing the subject and throwing out a smoke screen.
There was war in heaven at that time.
Tell the truth David, not a lie about it. Yes you left heaven, salvation and all your true friends at that time. It was all about David Mead and what David Mead wanted to do. Wayne was very kind about it. He loved you as no other has. You turned your back on the one who loved you as no one else had.
Yes you truly did leave heaven and salvation to wander in the desolation you created. Now the truth of what happened by you 20 years ago is cheerfully and happily buried by you so you can portray Wayne as an insane fornicating villain who does not believe his own words.
I am sorry if my little tantram come off a little harsh, but I am simple tired of the old habit LOR members have of quoting scripture in such a way to condemn, judge, and sentence souls to an eternity burning in hell, simply based on a person not agreeing with them and calling them on their misuse of scripture to back up their quite odd and separative beliefs and lifestyle. I too was a member back during the days of the split, and I was numbered with the group who eventually ended up with Wayne Bent. What we believed as LORites back then is different than what the LOR is teaching and believing now. Things that got people separated from the LOR back then is exactly the things that Mr. Bent is doing now. Milton, as a minister of the LOR was Wayne’s axeman per say, whose job it was to separate sinners from the flock when they strayed off the path. The path of LOR membership was decreed to be a sinless one. Yet sin has always furished in the LOR. Ask Allen Armstrong. Here is a small list. Sending unbelieving minor children to live with relatives, beating children into submission, wife spanking, homo-sexuality, and other sins, shall I continue? The people who did these things are still in the LOR in good standing. Why, because they are in that inner circle closest to Wayne Bent. 10 years ago, if any other member of the LOR would have done what Wayne has done this past 7 years, they would have been disfellowshipped from the church. Milton would have done his duty as always. So why the double standard today? Has God changed? Has God become senile and now winks at sins that the LOR called sin a few years back? But they are OK now, because Wayne now does them? No, God hasn’t changed, but Wayne has. Years ago I recall a man commited suicide by hanging himself, because he was told by a minister of the LOR that he was eternally lost. The LOR had that much hold over that man in that he really believed that vile report. And still the LOR has members who still go around and past judgements of enternal death to souls who stand up against them who attempt to show to them from the scriptures their errors, to persuade them to return to the God of the Bible. But the LOR’s pride and stiff-neckedness will not let these pleadings reach within their hearts, because they are so stuck in their old ways of being God on earth in vessels of flesh. It appears that they are so unreachable now. Mr. Mead knows Wayne Bent better than all of us. Wayne respects Mr. Mead, yet his following condemns David to the flames, and says he never knew the Christ, and never walked with God. I say, leave that judgement up to God. I say, bind souls for the Kingdom, and let the Angels of God bind the souls who are classed as tares. It’s not the job of men to bind men to damnation, otherwise we return to the days of Old Salem and the witch trials. Let God be God and let Him do His own job. He is the one with the eternal mind who sees all and knows all. I submit to Him alone. What we see here is the cause and effect of Brain-washing, but it also has another side to it. This is also Wayne Bent’s cause and effect as well. The reason I do not state my name is because I have no desire to put the readers of this forum through the down grading mud slinging that will come forth from my former brethren, because they will know indeed I speak with knowledge. My words are enough reproof for them to digest. Serously, the LOR should concentrate on giving Wayne good advice and support, and really be a friend to him in this, his hour of need. He needs prayer for a sound mind more than anything, and people who will tell him the truth in love.
With the current comments on this post addressing some of the same issues that I previously responded to on Sept. 21st on Mark’s post “Wayne Bent fasting in prison again…” I decided to post that comment here as well. Not that anyone’s view or mind will change no matter what facts are presented by those of us who have been members of the LOR church since its founding and some of us who have known Wayne Bent years prior to even then. Even so, those who have eyes to see will see and those who have ears to hear will hear. For those only, such as Ruth, do I write another word.
Ruth, I would like to make a suggestion to you if I may, that if you really want to know the heart of Wayne Bent and that of his family, go where they can be found. Not on the sites where the adversaries gather such as here and Prudence’s site. Learn at the feet of those who have experienced it all first hand, not those carrying their offenses and personal views on matters they know nothing about, but who would like you to believe that they do.
I wanted to thank you, Ruth, for being true to yourself and to Michael in openly declaring your love for Michael. You will not lose your heavenly reward. “Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
David Mead, in a reply to Milton you wrote, “When it was sold to him, he bought it, and now he thinks we should buy it as well.” I want to state clearly in response to your comment that no, we have nothing to sell, not even to you. Don’t you remember, David? The Gift is free. What has happened is that you have not recognized the Gift in the opened and publicly revealed Package, and so you have refused what has been freely given. It’s okay though, because that was the whole point. Each soul is free to choose what they want. I don’t want you or anyone else to have anything that you don’t want.
I remember those early days very well and you are right, David. You were surely under the influence of “mind control” as you demanded in your low booming voice at LS seminars, “Who do you say that I am?” But it had nothing to do with any kind of hypnotic spell that Wayne held over anyone’s mind. It was simply your own context that caused you to follow a man around, trying to copy him, and then later claiming “mind control” because you were following the voice of a man instead of the Voice of God. If one can’t recognize the difference, one is sure likely to end up when it’s all over crying, “victim of mind control!”, but it can’t be blamed on anyone but one’s self. You did not recognize the Voice of God when He spoke through Wayne. You only saw then, and still only see now, a man, or you would not be mocking him now. That is how you could rise up against him. You did not believe he was a man filled with the Holy Spirit for God’s purposes. That is how you could make the false claims that you and the others made, which brought about the church split. It is how you can cover up your own sin and project it onto Wayne now. It happened the same way with Jesus, too. Some souls were offended, especially the Pharisees, and Jesus was nailed to a tree.
Tell me, where is everyone now, David? Where are all those folks who were standing with you then? No one’s life could ever be the same again after that experience. For me personally it served to ground my faith even deeper than before in what the church was about. Some were too confused to even go back to where they had come from and others just left in their offenses. A few, such as yourself, have not been able to let it go. Your life is still all about the LOR or you would not be writing on Internet blogs in the manner that you are. It’s all wrapped up to look like something different than what it is, though. You write of your terrible experience in a “cult” that you want to repent from now, and to warn the whole world against it, but that’s really a total evasion of the truth of the matter. The truth is, that “it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
You can argue your “points” all you want to, fill the blogs with your hateful dissertations, while at the same time claiming to love the one you mock. You speak with a forked tongue and your bite is that of a viper. You can swear you know all about Wayne’s motives from beginning to end, you can speak to persuade those who like yourself believe they know so much because after all, “I was there”, but you know nothing of Him at all. You have proven by your words and actions that you never did, not even in the very beginning. You never knew his Spirit. You left in 1988 and anything you think you know of the church since that time, or of Strong City, has come from more offended souls such as yourself. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
You can’t admit the truth even though it is totally obvious, that you did get offended when called to account for your behavior at the time which quickly led to the general dissension among many members and culminated in the subsequent church split. Even Hanifa tried to share with you how “a true friend will always tell the truth at all times, even it if puts the relationship in jeopardy.” She shared her own experience in enough detail for anyone who so desires to understand the principle, to understand how Messiah works with the human soul, but still you do not, or will not, see it.
My words will also be turned into something else other than intended to fit the context of the individual who reads them. The reason for this is written in the Scriptures, “And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, In order that all may be judged and condem
David Mead, in a reply to Milton you wrote, “When it was sold to him, he bought it, and now he thinks we should buy it as well.” I want to state clearly in response to your comment that no, we have nothing to sell, not even to you. Don’t you remember, David? The Gift is free. What has happened is that you have not recognized the Gift in the opened and publicly revealed Package, and so you have refused what has been freely given. It’s okay though, because that was the whole point. Each soul is free to choose what they want. I don’t want you or anyone else to have anything that you don’t want.
I remember those early days very well and you are right, David. You were surely under the influence of “mind control” as you demanded in your low booming voice at LS seminars, “Who do you say that I am?” But it had nothing to do with any kind of hypnotic spell that Wayne held over anyone’s mind. It was simply your own context that caused you to follow a man around, trying to copy him, and then later claiming “mind control” because you were following the voice of a man instead of the Voice of God. If one can’t recognize the difference, one is sure likely to end up when it’s all over crying, “victim of mind control!”, but it can’t be blamed on anyone but one’s self. You did not recognize the Voice of God when He spoke through Wayne. You only saw then, and still only see now, a man, or you would not be mocking him now. That is how you could rise up against him. You did not believe he was a man filled with the Holy Spirit for God’s purposes. That is how you could make the false claims that you and the others made, which brought about the church split. It is how you can cover up your own sin and project it onto Wayne now. It happened the same way with Jesus, too. Some souls were offended, especially the Pharisees, and Jesus was nailed to a tree.
Tell me, where is everyone now, David? Where are all those folks who were standing with you then? No one’s life could ever be the same again after that experience. For me personally it served to ground my faith even deeper than before in what the church was about. Some were too confused to even go back to where they had come from and others just left in their offenses. A few, such as yourself, have not been able to let it go. Your life is still all about the LOR or you would not be writing on Internet blogs in the manner that you are. It’s all wrapped up to look like something different than what it is, though. You write of your terrible experience in a “cult” that you want to repent from now, and to warn the whole world against it, but that’s really a total evasion of the truth of the matter. The truth is, that “it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
You can argue your “points” all you want to, fill the blogs with your hateful dissertations, while at the same time claiming to love the one you mock. You speak with a forked tongue and your bite is that of a viper. You can swear you know all about Wayne’s motives from beginning to end, you can speak to persuade those who like yourself believe they know so much because after all, “I was there”, but you know nothing of Him at all. You have proven by your words and actions that you never did, not even in the very beginning. You never knew his Spirit. You left in 1988 and anything you think you know of the church since that time, or of Strong City, has come from more offended souls such as yourself. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
You can’t admit the truth even though it is totally obvious, that you did get offended when called to account for your behavior at the time which quickly led to the general dissension among many members and culminated in the subsequent church split. Even Hanifa tried to share with you how “a true friend will always tell the truth at all times, even it if puts the relationship in jeopardy.” She shared her own experience in enough detail for anyone who so desires to understand the principle, to understand how Messiah works with the human soul, but still you do not, or will not, see it.
My words will also be turned into something else other than intended to fit the context of the individual who reads them. The reason for this is written in the Scriptures, “And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, In order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
How Wayne has loved you, though. I’ve been here since day one and nothing but expressions of respect and true love have ever passed Wayne’s lips when referring to David Mead. He was personally devastated with the result of the split on many levels. It took years for him to be resolved. He still loves you, David, in a way that you will never understand with your current context, and I, for one, am not about to try to change your mind/context. Michael’s Spirit came in Wayne to assure each soul that free choice, breaking the chains that bound us to our previous contexts that were not given of God but by “mere men.” “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.”
Sincerely,
C. Davis
ned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
How Wayne has loved you, though. I’ve been here since day one and nothing but expressions of respect and true love have ever passed Wayne’s lips when referring to David Mead. He was personally devastated with the result of the split on many levels. It took years for him to be resolved. He still loves you, David, in a way that you will never understand with your current context, and I, for one, am not about to try to change your mind/context. Michael’s Spirit came in Wayne to assure each soul that free choice, breaking the chains that bound us to our previous contexts that were not given of God but by “mere men.” “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.”
Sincerely,
C. Davis
Yes, perhaps Mr. Mead in Europe 20 years ago took the Song of Solomon study to the flesh back then, and Wayne undoubtedly was forced into a position to deal with it. I am not a betting man, but I bet if David had not of taken the move that he did, Wayne would have. If I recall, the Song of Solomon study was a combined contribution of both men. Wayne has always had a fastenation with the Song. Sadly, back then, it was taken to the flesh, it was seen as such and dealt with, and now 20 years later when David is removed from the picture, Wayne undertakes it again, with the same results, excuse me, much more horrid results than before. Wayne takes the Song to the flesh as well, and now has multiple wives, and two familys are broken up. There were good reasons men of the clothe tip-toed carefully around that one particular book of the Bible, and if I recalled, the coucil who formed the men who put the King James version of the Bible together almost edited it out of the Bible, why, because they knew how the flesh plays such a role in man’s thinking and doing… but the story of the Song had to be told and shared.
David Mead repented sorrowfully back in that day. Lesson learned. God heard and accepted the rependance, and David turned away from his sin, a better man. Now 20 years later, I am still awaiting for Mr. Bents confession and repentance.
Clytie, (my friend Carey) wrote to say:
“You left in 1988 and anything you think you know of the church since that time, or of Strong City, has come from more offended souls such as yourself.”
Sister Carey wants us to know that I get my information of the church (LOR) from “offended souls.” And that “anything I think I know” is from them.
Well then, from which offended soul have I quoted? She didn’t say.
The events that I wrote about were proudly plastered daily on the internet by all the LOR members for the whole world to see. They are quite public, nothing private about them. And then in the newspapers. And then in the trial manuscripts. And now by Jeff. Is it he perhaps, to which she refers?
JUST AGREEING WITH DAVID
Milton wrote:
David spoke out of the abundance of his heart when he said, “It took real courage to leave heaven, the church of God and salvation, all your friends.” This is the faith of David Mead. I just agreed with him.
Actually Milton, in your use of the Savior’s words, it was with the intention to condemn someone. I would never use them that way. And neither would the Savior.
So I don’t see how you feel we are in agreement.
WHAT DAVID DID
Milton writes us now of “David’s activities.” This is starting to get interesting.
And what were those “activities”? They were “with other women in Europe and at home.” Milton, now this could get exciting.
So then, just what was David doing with those other women in Europe and at home? Sounds like the stuff of a movie, Hollywood, or at least a book. Let’s see if Milton will get around to it.
David got “offended when confronted about it.” And what was David offended about—David, “he was venturing into 20 years ago”, “what God has given Messiah to do.”
If this account is correct, it appears that David was just a little ahead of messiah. Imagine that. Now we know what messiah is into. Messiah had to put a stop to David so he could do it himself. David was just into it first.
Good thing we have Milton here to tell us all about it. Milton has not forgotten, he remembers it all. Things that no one else remembers. He “remembers it very well” for he was even “in the secret meetings.” Get ready for the truth to come out. So it seems we are about to get the lowdown. He says:
“I listened to how you and others tried desperately to wiggle out of what happened by changing the subject and throwing out a smoke screen.”
Good then Milton. Tell us. You tell it. What happened? Please don’t do like those back then and change the subject. Those women of intrigue of whom you speak, what were they doing with David? Isn’t this your subject? Then out with it man.
Remember now, don’t “throw out a smoke screen”, as others did and talk about something else. You know how serious this is; if you have forgotten, just read your post again. .
If you are going to leave us with innuendo, satisfied to imply this or that, hoping your readers here will infer something you might mean without having to say it, that is just throwing out the old smoke screen, the one you accused others of.
David, how can you read into black and white words condemnation? You said my intent was to condemn. How can you look into words and read my intent? I only said I agree that what you said was true. You left heaven, salvation and your friends. I agree that that was what you did.
God said that He did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. But I am sure that the scribes and pharisees did not feel that way when he called them a den of vipers in Matthew 23. In the SOP it says that those who were in the temple saw a whip in Christ’s hands when it was a small cord. Their context of a loving Son of God created in them their own condemnation. Was Jesus condemning them? No, they did that to themselves. Your own context of God has created in you condemnation.
David I do not condemn you. You do that to yourself most readily. God is loving you when He says that He agrees with what you say.
Some interesting diolog going on here. I have always wanted to know what really happened in Europe. David, I appreciate your desire to “throw back the covers” per say, and expose everything to the LIGHT of day, providing Milton wants to point at certain things. It looks like being naked and unashamed to me, when done in a truly repentive and reflective basis. Man should learn from his mistakes. Wayne’s current behaviour does have it’s roots, and now comes forth the disclosure of facts from one who was there from the beginning. As Paul Harvey would say, “The rest of the story”.
And Milton, nice job tip toeing through the egg shells. But you have to do better as far as I am concerned, as I am not buying it either. It’s not about Black and White, but a reveiling of human nature, and history repeating itself. Remember there is nothing new under the sun. The truth is clearly discerable to one with clear eyes and a heart rooted in the scriptures.
David, tell us about the kissing, hand holding, arm in arm alone walks going on with you and another ministers wife and other women. Tell us about your wife’s struggle with it. If you want to open up about it, bring it out in the open, then tell us in your own words.
And yes what you were advocating back then was a false picture of the beginnings of the marriage of the Lamb of God to His church the bride.
Cain killed Abel and was called a murderer. Moses killed 3,000 of his brethren while doing the will of God. Only those with the Spirit of God can discern the difference between what God does and what the devil wants to ruin ahead of time or copy.
Each man will decide where he stands on this issue for there is no middle ground. Did God tell Wayne Bent that he was Messiah or is he a self-proclaimed messiah? Did God ask Wayne to carry out a literal consummation with 7 women to fulfill prophecy or was it his own lusts?
Did God tell you to do what you did David? or was it the your lusts?
I am clear in my own mind. I have seen both and heard testimony from both. I am not brain washed and I do not follow a man.
You know Milton, before you go and put on the boxing gloves and open up a can of worms that you may regret, as it is so easy to push down letters on a keyboard from a safe distance, let’s not forget an incident which occured while you were in Oregon, a little bit before Purity passed away, an incident in which Michael told the entire church assembled in the barn that he was divorcing you from himself. Remember living on the Sea of Glass means that all is seen and understood as our lives are seen and known by all. Something about living in glass houses and throwing rocks. I do believe you have foreknowledge in a personal way about counterfeiting Michael Travessers so-called assigned mission to Christainity. Be careful where you tread, as your life and reproven mistakes are also known by many who read this forum. I just want to save you from having a red face, for there are others here who can also add to this discussion as well. Here in Yuma we call that bringing a knife to a gun fight.
IT WAS ONLY A SMOKE SCREEN.
Is this all he has? Didn’t he have us ready for something more? It sounded like it was going to be awful, more like what Wayne does. What a let down.
If he was in all the secret meetings as he claims, it would seem that he should have given us all the secrets. Exposed my sins of the flesh and lusts. What happened? But no, just this. I will respond to even this stuff as soon as he has exhausted himself.
Since this is all he has, now he has to go around asking others if they can remember more than he. He needs time to get reports of “activities with women” and such, all that he implied he could. Put them all together and give them to us. This is what we expected.
When he finds out what they were (if there were any), then he will tell us. So far, this is all he has. He wants a little more time. Okay, perhaps a few more days will be sufficient. Just say when Milton.
When he gets all the dirt he can dig up, as soon as he can, then I will respond to it. Until he and those helping him are finished changing the subject and throwing their smoke screens and innuendoes, hoping we will infer things from what he has not said, then I will tell if what he has, if it is true or not. And I will tell the truth.
Why not tell the truth? I have already repented, why should I hold back now? I am not trying to justify anything I did while in LOR. That would be ridiculous. As anybody who has read what I have written knows, I have repudiated all of it. If Milton thinks I would try to defend some of it, he is completely confused. Surprise.
But one thing I don’t see any reason to do is repent for something I never did. This is Milton’s problem. Milton wants me to confess to things that Wayne does, things I did not do. Then tell me what it was that I did Milton, and if I did them, I will confess. If you don’t come up with anything, then it will soon be obvious to those here who may not be able to know for sure, except by your mouth, then they will know too that you don’t have anything.
For now, let’s just wait a little and see what Milton and Co. can discover to reveal.
David Mead,
I am leaving a Private Message for you on Prudence’s forum. Please go there when you can to receive it. Thank you.
Johnny Miller
Johnny, I have no red face about what I did. I used to have one a lot over it, but now I just admit that what I did was of my own devising. I carried a ton of guilt and confusion over this issue for a long time, but have allowed God to work his purpose through it. God purposes to destroy self in every one of us through our own desires. In His great love He gives us what we want. He will do this even if it means eternal separation from Himself the Great Lover of our souls. His real purpose is so we can see ourselves and flee from the wicked one. He would have done the same with David Mead or you, but instead both of you have gone in the opposite direction of what I have done. Now you choose to cast stones at Michael calling Him every name imaginable and accusing him of doing what he did as being of the flesh. You could have accepted the council of God and grown stronger and more fervent in your devotion of God and His Anointed Messiah. The latter is what I have done.
I admit that what Michael said and did in the barn was true and accurate. I have no quarrel with it at all. I have spoken in person to him since then about it all and he is familiar with it all. He had no condemnation for me and I felt only love coming from him. I wept on his shoulder and he has hugged me to himself. When we hugged I literally felt Him merge into my very being. It was very similar to my dream at Castle Dome where I became One with God. God gave me the desire for and the intimacy of the premonition that Michael had. I only desired deliverance from my own wicked ways and myself when God gave it to me.
The steps one takes in reproof and rebuke can take one of two courses. Either one accepts the reproof and rebuke as from God or they harden themselves against it and eventually see themselves as better than the one who brings the reproof. The next step is blame against the reprover and finally condemnation against the reprover. From your testimony and the testimony of David it is evident which course you both have taken. Self is very alive in both of you and gloats in the glory of it all. You both have a soapbox to stand on. David has a little following and you are attempting the same with your book.
Johnny, I actually wish you both success. This world will be the only heaven either of you will have. David has admitted it openly. Yet you defend him. You both might as well enjoy it while you can. Johnny if you are real lucky your book will become a movie and you can help direct it. Think of all the fame and fortune you will have then. Think of the excitement you will have. You will have climbed the ladder of success from a writer to a movie star. David wishes the same for himself. He said so in one of his last posts.
I saw your picture on one of your websites with the word Hero on the tee shirt you were wearing for the picture. I believe it was My Space or Face book. That Johnny is how you see yourself. You are a hero in your own eyes. In God’s kingdom the Hero is Michael who has sacrificed all for us by His Spirit in the person of Wayne Bent.
I will not bring a knife to a gunfight. I have no weapons of any kind. I come with empty hands. I agree with mine accuser. I should be in jail not Michael Travesser. He is as innocent as I am guilty as charged. I agree.
You can save me from nothing at all. Michael saved me from me. I will love Him more every day, all the time and will grow more devoted as the centuries roll on. It is that way in God’s kingdom. It will never change for me.
David, I have nothing more to say to you about what you did before the church split. You know. Those involved know too. I have no need to go further than to state that if you want to open up about, then do so in your own words. Why should I?
Michael was open about what he did. He wrote extensively about it. Some was written in graphic detail. If a man wants to hide something why would he write about it as much as he did? He wanted everyone to know as much as possible about it. It was a Gift from God to us all and was good news to those who saw it for what it was.
If a man wants to hide something he will keep mum and if discovered or caught, he will tell others to produce the evidence so he can refute it. This is what you are doing. Your actions are the opposite of Michael.
Your repentance is NOT for what you did in Europe. Your repentance is repentance for being a member of the Lord Our Righteousness Church. Your repentance is repentance for advocating the Gift of God to others (that you claim 50% or more involvement and now call idiocies). If you had really believed in the Gift of God it would have kept you from doing what you did. There is no comparison. The two do not correspond.
Old friend, You look on the outside, but you do not see the issues of the heart. The shirt was given to me for giving a pint of blood at a blood drive, that’s all. Haven’t we all bled for the cause Milton, in one way or another? Thank you for your response, and I am happy that you learned what you did. I also learned a lot about myself when I left the LOR. My book is only an autobiography and only one third of the book is dedicated to the LOR, as I have lived an interesting life, as all of us have in the LOR. We all have learned lessons from the past, and seriously I really have no axe to grind. I am just sad to see how things appear to be going for Wayne, I really am, but at this time it seems we, the three blind men are seeing the elephant differently as our hands roam over it’s huge form. But it is still an elephant, and I am afraid that the guy feeling the hind quarters may be smushed if the gentle beast decides to sit down. Be careful where you stand and put your hands, Milton, and so will I.
Johnny, getting a shirt and wearing it for a picture to display on a website are two different things.
I did not “learn” anything. I did get something though. My life is not interesting at all and nothing to brag or write a book about.
The life of Jesus was important enough to write several books about, i.e. the four gospels. Michael Travesser’s life is important too because the Gift of God was given him for us and so was the marriage of the Lamb. The men who wrote the four gospel books said little or nothing at all about themselves.
Thank you for admitting that you are blind, but do not lump me in there with you or what you are attempting to search out. I am not blindly feeling or following anything.
Johnny you may not have an “axe to grind”, but you have nothing in support to say for Michael. You call his mission a “so-called” mission for Christianity. You agree with those who call him insane. You agree with those who say that what he did was devilish. You agree with those who have taken a decided stand against Michael. You sat with them at the trial. You fellowshipped with them afterwords and gave your support. Why not admit that you are in direct opposition to Michael and everything he stands for and be honest? Why try to be nice and ride the fence a little? Why the pretense when the angels can see clear through the thin guise?
What does your recording angel write about the life of Johnny in this regard? What does that book read like? Is it as interesting as yours? Would you want it published for everyone to read?
How Bent initiated his Sexual Ministry
It might be enlightening to read Wayne Bent’s Song of Solomon papers (this is a long post, but well worth reading in the light of recent postings). First, is a discussion Wayne Bent wrote about when he was in Arizona in the process of buying and setting up his New Mexico estate. It is a strange mix of biblical references, astrology and his own interpretations. After you read this, then click the link at the end to read Bent’s Song of Solomon commentary (with an epilogue by Jody Thompson, his first sexual concubine). This commentary is what some say Bent (and Jody) used to initiate Wayne’s other potential sex partners.
Following is the link to Wayne Bent’s Song of Solomon Commentary, written in July of 2000, prior to Wayne becoming “The Son of God” (and prior to his having sex with the two married women). This “Commentary” has a epilogue written by Jody Thompson (known then as Gratitude), who several months after writing this became the first of Wayne’s two concubines and was the author of “The Finished Work” (using the name Anaiah), which was a discussion about her sexual liaison with Wayne Bent and that of the second married woman (Debbie Keele).
Wayne’s, oft discussed, Song of Solomon “commentary” :
http://strongcity2.info/bentsgospel/solomon
These writings will provide quite a bit of understanding about the beginnings of Wayne Bent’s sexual ministry (which he maintains was all commanded by God). Hopefully, these documents can add to the discussion.
— Sam
“NOTHING MORE” FROM MILTON
Milton wrote to David:
“David, I have nothing more to say to you about what you did before the church split. You know.”
Okay Milton, yes, I know. But it was you who said you knew and had not forgotten, and that it was “burned into your brain”. Something like this. Now we see that you knew nothing. It was just your brain that was burned.
According to the way you wrote of it, my bad behavior etc. you thought it must have been like what Wayne does—meaning adultery etc? But now, because you had no clue, you have to say, “I have nothing more” and try to get me to say it for you. Well Milton, like you, I can’t report any adultery either. Imagine that. There wasn’t any. Sorry to ruin your attempt at innuendo.
Couldn’t you find any one else who could report adultery? How so? How about child molestation? Beating? Wife beating? Something else? So much for what you had us all ready for.
As for the things he did accuse me of, as I said, I will address them for him. Isn’t this what he would like, so as to expose my evil? I should do Milton’s job for him, what a novel idea. Tricky fox, this one. Of course. But let’s wait a moment until we are sure that no other information will come in to him, or that he doesn’t remember some more. If and when he is sure this is all he has, then we will proceed. Okay Milton?
What he first assayed to tell us of the secret sins and lusts of mine that he was aware of from all the secret meetings, all of which he said he was in attendance at, still, he could not deliver. Turns out all he had was just a big smoke screen and changing of the subject, what he accused us of.
But because of this from Milton, there is a question that I would like to address here first, how and why did Milton and Co. think there was so much against me all this time? Did they just make it up? I don’t think so. Surprise, there was a source for it all, and it wasn’t Milton and Co. I will refresh our memories of what they called “the trial” at the split. Next post.
THE TRIAL, AT THE SPIT
There was trouble in the camp. It had become known that something between Wayne and David, two heretofore inseparable friends, was amiss. Frantic phone calls were sent out from Sandpoint every few hours reporting on the latest tidbit of information. I was in Riverside CA and I too had to be kept up with the latest from headquarters.
To make a long story short, a meeting was called in which was to be a trial—David’s. The whole church was summoned for it, and almost the whole church came. Chick McGill, Allan Armstrong and Johnny Miller who Allen was baptizing at the moment of the trial, were among the few not in attendance. But they had the regular updates every few minutes.
As we arrived, one of the things Wayne had required was that David not be present, while he read the charges against me. Would we have a chance to address the charges? Yes, tomorrow. There was to be a question and answer period the next day. We were glad to get that opportunity and waited for it. While Wayne addressed the church, we were in our motor home. We came out a couple of times and walked around a little. I remember talking to one of the elderly women on the street during the waiting period before Wayne was done.
Wayne came out and we spoke momentarily. He said he had been crucified (meaning by me). That was all he took time to say to me. We went back in together stood in front of the church where he again said he had been crucified. We then sat down together and that was that. Again it was announced that the question period was to be the next day.
Next day came and Wayne announced that there would be no question and answer period.
This, while I had not faced my accuser, nor heard the accusations. Before he spoke, I noticed that Wayne was very fearful. His body was literally shaking, especially his hands. Others remarked about it too. It may be that he didn’t like the thought of me answering questions.
After a while, for one, the man who sold heavy equipment, Krueger I think it was, asked me what I had to say about the accusations (like Milton is asking me now). I told him I had not heard them. He was astounded. How was I too respond.
Here comes the answer to the question I asked in the last post: who was the source of the accusations against me and I said, Surprise, it was not Milton and Co. They got it from Wayne. From the man who never ever said anything against me as far as anyone can remember. Only the most loving and reverent words from him about me. Perhaps those old papers we used to get every month are all lost now. But perhaps Jeff could go get some that refer to David as the Devil and his angels who were thrown out of heaven. What could be more loving?
I brought no accusations against Wayne (as the rewrite of history has it in SC). I never addressed the church. And I wasn’t present when Wayne did. You there at SC, what did I bring against Wayne? He had not begun fornicating or molesting children. As I have always said, and written here, when I left LOR, I was in full agreement with it, and with all the doctrines.
The only possible thing I could have had against Wayne was that he was coming against me. Yet, Strong City has it just backwards, that I came against Wayne. Then tell it, you who are so sure, what were my charges against him then? Yes, tell us, you who know what they were. Or will you be like Milton and not have anything?
People who had been my friends the day before, now they told me I was dead, lost. When I tried to speak to them, they turned away in disgust. Over night, I was shunned by half the church.
Wayne complains that in his trial, his witness could not speak. What about mine? He said his peers were not allowed to be heard. He was allowed to hear his charges, and also to face his accuser. But when he tied me, he did not allow that.
If what Milton and Co. say is true, that they have “nothing more to say to me” (charge me with), about the “activities with women”, we can proceed to the few feeble innuendos for which they do charge me. Another post.
I recently explained to someone here that the same spirit that inhabits Wayne Bent right now is the very same spirit that inhabits Sam Redman. I think Sam took exception to this, because his response was to suggest that I was high. That’s understandable. The concept is beyond most people. Some people take offense to the idea that someone who they think opposes them might be similar to them in some respect. Some try to isolate themselves from people they think are not like themselves, and fight them. But there really is only one thing to know, and that is The Spirit. By The Spirit, all things are given. What we do with what is given is entirely up to us.
The reason this issue of the spirit is brought up is to offer a conceptual point that might be well taken. It is not surprising in the least when the truth is so easily flung away like an empty beer can by the self that serves no better purpose than to be right, or be the best, or be the winner, or to be messiah, or to be any other such a self-conceived concept. The fact that such a truth was so easily dismissed shall actually serve to reinforce reality to such flingers, one day, in discovering the True self within them. If not, the flinger shall always struggle to be the center of attention, with a cadre of supporters, both real and contrived, at ready service by his side. In this, the flinger displays the spirit of the astonisher, or the thinker, or the perspicacious one, or the polemic.
Wayne Bent is, by his own description, the astonisher. This is the spirit that makes up what it wants to be today, just like we all might do. The last thing this spirit wants is the truth of the condition it is in to be self-known, for that leads directly to the end of itself.
This spirit will fight, for this is the spirit of fighting. This is the warrior. The subject is brought up here not to judge. It is to reveal. There is nothing wrong with the warrior spirit. It is just what it is. It performs a useful purpose in most societies. The warrior, the astonisher, the expert, etc, being all the same spirit, are highly creative. These many faces of the same creature are one and the same, though, in that they all share a need to dominate in some way, shape or form, anyone around them that might be so impressed. Beyond the impressionable, though, they do little more than to make things interesting.
Now, I said that Wayne Bent would awaken at some point, finding the blessing of his True self. He may awaken in this world, or the next. If he awakens in this world, it will be to his own astonishment. What Wayne will find in awakening is what has alluded him for many years, now. For the True self which awakens (translates) only does so after letting go of the things it was about. All is lost. I do not think further explanation is needed. Even Wayne has preached this in word, only to deny it in action.
Same goes for us all. The great equalizer in all this is The Spirit, which is One already, and the many manifest things that The Spirit is about in this world, even those things which do not know it, are One in The Spirit. No thing is “special” any more than any thing is “special”. Nothing. Nobody. Yet, it is all sacred, for it is the life and the conditional reality of the very Spirit in which we take our being. The only difference between an awakened soul and a dreaming one, is the actual awareness of its being as The One. So, while even the warrior spirit that animates some souls is The One, until it awakens, it never really knew. Wayne claims he is Messiah, but what proves Messiah is not in the claiming, but in the being. In this being there is no individual, there is only The One. In this being there is no division, for all is One. Wayne is all about being a special individual, and he is the consummate divider. End of story.
So, for Sam (and that is, everyone here including me), we can continue to make a case for a false sense of individual specialness here, or being the expert authority, or we can realize that we are, actually, One already. In this realization, which is absolutely anti-ego and useless to the individual, we might be able to find a new thing together. That new thing is a sense of reconciliation, forgiveness, and oneness in The Spirit, as it already is. We could step into that, or fling it away. Will we hold that false sense of self, or fling it instead, to accept our True self? Will Wayne Bent? Will the world? This is what Christ is about. The “Gift”, if you will, is in the accepting.
This is offered in the sincere hope that it helps to move the whole Bent issue forward, toward resolution. Let’s keep our focus on the real issue. Does it matter if Wayne claims one thing or another, when after all, we are each one of us just as self serving as he is? Do the details of why he was incarcerated really matter? Can we grown in this, or must we insist on having to create a battle so that we can fight against each other (against our True self)? Can we let go of our religion? Can we let go of righteousness? Can we let go of every thing?
It is in that letting go where we find something more precious than any thing. We find Wayne Bent in the hell of his own making, and we pray he wakes up from it, whole, and awakened to the True self, because he is actually One no less than we. This is what The Messiah is really all about — not a bag of bones, but The Spirit which truly heals us, and is truly Who we are.
DAVID, TELL US ABOUT YOUR WIFE
On 9/26/2009, Milton wrote us this, in part:
This “courage” of David Mead to leave heaven, happened 20 years ago. It had absolutely nothing to do with any supposed fornications on the part of Wayne at that time. But it did have a lot to do with David’s activities at that time with other women in Europe and at home. David was offended when Wayne confronted him about it. If David had accepted the council of God and left his forays into the lives of other women (some of whom were married) behind he would not be speaking as he does now. Now David has a soap box to stand on so he can point the finger at Wayne and try to make what God has given Messiah to do appear to be what he was venturing into 20 years ago.
With this, we expected he would proceed to reveal what he knew.
After Milton’s claim that he knew the secret sins and “lusts” of my heart, having been “in all the secret meetings,” I encouraged him to proceed. Tell us what they were. It certainly promised to be exciting stuff.
He called it “activities with various women,” and likened it to what God had laid on Wayne to do. He had us in great anticipation of the evils only he could remember for they were ?burned into his brain” he said.
Well, the following whimper is what materialized. Nothing more than the same innuendo with which he had started. This is what he came back with:
“David, tell us about the kissing, hand holding, arm in arm alone walks going on with you and another ministers wife and other women. Tell us about your wife’s struggle with it. If you want to open up about it, bring it out in the open, then tell us in your own words.”
That’s it. But now he thought it better if I told it. Clever fox this one. Or was it that he had nothing to reveal? I gave him some time to come up with something and he said he had nothing more, but would I please proceed with it for him. He may still come up with something after a more thorough investigation (some inquiring phone calls).
(Given the damage to his cause only he can do, I keep thinking someone (from SC) is going to tell him to cease and desist, for the idea doesn’t seem to occur to him on his own.)
Okay Milton, let’s get started. You suggest that I tell about my wife. Okay, why not ask me whatever you want about her and then I will do the same for you (not your present one). And then those here who know how we each treated them can correct us if they like. You want to go first?
David – Do you remember the topic here? It’s about Wayne Bent’s fast and the force feeding situation.
While you probably don’t realize it, you have completely high-jacked Mark Horner’s thread. You are completely off-topic and have turned it into just a private discussion with (mostly yourself) and another person. What’s especially bad about it is that it isn’t about Wayne and his fast in prison (remember that subject?), it’s all about David Mead (not very interesting to people interested in the Wayne Bent fasting saga). Here is a tip for you… every time you post here, first mention the story at the top of this thread and then stay on topic for your post.
Here is a suggestion for you. Go to http:/wordpress.com, start yourself a blog (takes five minutes) and start posting. People will find you in the search engines and you can write your book there. But, for goodness sake, do Mark a favor and quit high-jacking his blog.
Hopefully, this conversation can now pick up at a point prior the highjacking (it’s about the fast and the force feeding).
Mr. Polemic,
Even though what you say is true on the surface, this current line of discussion is very, very connected to the entire chain of events, a chain which began being contructed and wrapped around souls 20 years ago. I would venture to say that 98% of the current followers of Michael Travesser has not had the opportunity to hear David Meads testimony. Milton Bernheisel has stirred the pot and Carrie Davis has added her ingrediants and now the dinner bell is ringing. I want a bowel of this stew and I think that when it is consummed, there are going to be plenty of upset tummys out there. (Hopefully not mine.) Every tree has a beginning and has roots. Wayne bent has roots as well, and David and Wayne planted this tree together. Wayne tried to chop half of this tree down, but alas it had be so tightly wrapped around is own side of the tree. This testimony goes back to the beginning of the matter, a power struggle, a trial, and what looks like a fixed jury. Let the man have his say and let the earth shake, rattle and roll. The fact Mr. Mead is facing such adverse reactions from the Strong City camp should suggest that this does indeed have some crediance on the present situation. And as for Mark Horner, he is a news man and a reporter who works to reveal the truth. I believe I know him well enough in that he will allow this little side trip down memory lane. He is quite able to manage his blog to his liking. He doesn’t have to listen to me.
It occurs to me Polemic that with regard to his blog, Mark can and does speak for himself whenever he wants.
Until the last few days, since the last time we knew something, the subject was the fast and Wayne. It is still about Wayne if you will. Those defending him have decided to charge me, perhaps you have noticed.
You may not have noticed but it wasn’t me who brought some charges against me here. Yes, Polemic, here, on this blog is where it happened.
As for the fast you want to talk about, let’s talk. What info do you have? Why have you not spoken about it? My response to charges so recently leveled against me should not keep you from filling us in, or talking about old news if you want. Right?
If he is being force fed right now, it will only last as long as he resists taking the vegetarian food they were so regularly providing him when he decided to begin refusing it. I say, if it is wrong to eat it now, why was he eating it before?
If it obscene to receive food at the hand of your molester (his term for the state), why was he receiving it from the molester before? The molester had been feeding him just fine. Did it just occur to him to say this? What do you think Polemic?
Johnny – Your (inadvertent) spelling of bowl as “bowel” was quite fitting. As I said, there is no need to high-jack this blog. http://wordpress.com is free (totally free). Takes five minutes to get started and you can join David there to continue the discussion. I’ll even participate there.
By, the way, I wonder if they have started to feed Wayne by the tubes yet? I thought it was peculiar that he said that he wouldn’t fight the nasal tubes. That particular stance seems so weird… like he is wanting some sort of personalized attention (oh… I’m a little baby, feed me sort of thing). You have to admit, it is rather sadomasochistic. Once he lost and they say he can be force fed, then the pain (and it’s miserable) of having that done to you is totally your own choice.
And David — your point is good. If the State was being the molester giving him his vegetarian trays why would he accept (not fight) the tubes down his nose? He is accepting food from his molester. I would have more respect for him if he were to fight so much they had to strap him down and he snorted it out until they had to to surgery to put it into his stomach (lots of terminal patients have done just that).
Like others have said, he really needs to have some mental health treatments.
Polemic, Apparently you misunderstood what I said. I did not question why Wayne would accept the tubes—the tubes are put into him by others. It was the vegetarian trays to which I referred. We know he was eating them whenever they were brought to him.
If it was as obscene as he is arguing now, why has he been eating them from the hand of his molester for lo these nine months? If he expects the judge to understand and to sympathize with how wrong it is suddenly, to eat the molester’s food, why was he eating it all along? Was it not wrong before? If it wasn’t wrong before, to eat it at the hand of his molester, what has changed now? Did the molester change, or was it Wayne?
Somehow Wayne failed to impress the judge with this particular argument for he didn’t seem any more persuaded that I.
By the way, I noticed you are still saying that this blog has been high-jacked. If so in your opinion, why not high-jack it back? It should only take you five minutes or less.
I will agree with Polemic. I have also been guilty of participating some in the high-jack here and it is not fair to the blog author (Mark Horner) and lately this has gotten out of hand.
David, let me echo the suggestion about using wordpress.com. That is where my blog is and it really does take just a few minutes and you are up and rolling. Then you can post brief mentions here (and other places) whenever you do an update and just say briefly what you have posted about and say to click on the link on your name. I have done that in the past (and should have done it in this thread). Just click on my name to the right and see how that works. When you post on your wordpress blog, you list keywords and phrases (like Wayne Bent) and it jumps high in the google and bing returns. I get lots of visitors every day (sometimes hundreds) and so will you. I can help you if you need any guidance in doing your blog.
I don’t allow comments on my blog, but you could on yours and like Polemic said, I also will come to your blog and join in your discussions.
— Sam
I have really been able to glean new information from these exchanges. Milton apparently likes to beat kids and women as much as he likes condeming people to fires of hell.
I feel sorry for Wayne. That video of him on the stand showed that he has really gone far away from his ministry. He could have used that as his pulpit to talk about forgiveness and what Jesus said about not caring about what you are going to eat or what you are going to drink and giving no thought “about the morrow.” He is a sad character and the look on the faces of his followers… so dejected. I think he should give his appeal a chance. All isn’t lost yet.
After trying to read through the posts yesterday and find the ones that were actually relevant to the topic at hand, Wayne Bent and his fast … I found the post by the one Former LOR Member most interesting! It was something I had never considered and to see it written here, so much of the writings of Wayne Bent and other very suspicious religious leaders made sense to me, how they have abused certain scriptures from the Bible.
Former LOR wrote:
For some it might be worth the time to go back and reread the links Mr. Redman posted here yesterday and Wayne Bent’s Song of Solomon papers. Perhaps the world would have been spared much if the Book of Solomon had not been included. Obviously very sick and dangerous men and women seem to have used interpretations of those scriptures I seriously doubt were the original intent.
I am also hoping there might be an update from someone about Wayne’s fast, or whether he has accepted that he has lost this round with the State?
David Mead,
It used to be for me that anyone who was a friend of Wayne’s I counted as a friend of mine, too. I just realized that that has not changed for me. If you were indeed a true friend of Wayne’s, which by your mocking of him and everything he stands for you have proven that you are not, then you are no friend of mine, either. Please do not refer to me as your “friend” or “sister” as you make a mockery of their true meaning. You know good and well that we are on polar sides of all the issues concerning Wayne Bent, aka Michael Travesser neither one of us are going to change our minds.
If, as you say, you have read all about the events that occurred in Strong City that were “proudly plastered daily on the Internet” then it is incredible to me that you still know nothing of what you write. Even your version of what happened over 20 years ago during the church split that you now deny was such, is also incredible to me, but does not surprise me. The spirit that leads you has taken you into a deep dark hole where there is no Light. I won’t be following you there.
I pray that any souls who are true in heart and desiring only the truth who might be reading this thread, will leave it now and go where the Light can be found.
You know Jan, Wayne’s interpretation of the Song of Solomon is rather enlightening to me, and as a tool of illustration (In Print), it was very helpful for me personally. I loved the love story between God and Man, the close lovers as God had intended for all of us. But it ends there. It was between the individual man and his personal God, not to be illustrated between a man of flesh and a woman of flesh, as they attempt to tell the story of God and man in the santuary called the Bridal Chamber. Every true and legal marriage between a man and a woman is a reflection of that heavenly marriage, but God never intended another man of flesh to come between two other legal marriages of a man and woman of flesh, and take those men’s wives and lie with them and call them his wives and leave those men desolate. I was there when the Great consumation happened in the Land, and I saw the pain on those men’s faces as they battled God about the reasons this event happened as it did and why it involved them. The man in the Song by the way only had one lover, not two. The Song of Solomon isn’t Shakesphere, a story to be acted out with actors telling a story.
Jan, the Song of Solomon is a very pointed book about the love between a man and a woman. In some circles it could be taken as pornographic, but it is accepted as scripture. When God made Adam and Eve He made two who were to reflect the full image of God. It says in scripture that God made them both male and female in the image of God. It took both to reveal God’s image fully. (Side note that is why homosexuality cannot reveal God’s image for one of the two is missing. It is a perversion of God’s image.) But there is another side to the story.
God has always likened the church to a female. The Church of God is called the bride. God being the male part and the church being the female part. Together they make up the image of God too. The Bride is to receive God’s seed into herself and bring forth out of herself the Son of God. Mary did this with Jesus. Mary was impregnated with God’s seed and gave birth to a Son–the Son of God. He was vilified and called insane and a bastard. But He was the Son of God.
In scripture it says we are all to be sons of God. We are to be born of God, not of man or the will of the flesh as it says in John chapter one. But the Church lost sight of this and turned the born again experience into doctrines, ideas, works and just being nice or helpful. It has become everything but what God intended it to be. Jesus was normal as we all are to be normal like Him. “As He is so are we in this world.” 1 John says. We are to be born again as He was born again from Mary.
Michael Travesser saw this and has labored intensely for years to bring people to understand this. That is what all his books and manuscripts are about. He has taught this and tried to show us in various symbolic ways for years what it means to be Sons of God as Jesus was the Son of God. So God used this man who has had this on his heart in an intense way to take the final step in showing us in an actual factual literal physical manner what it means to be married to God. God took it to the literal consummation first with the Two Witnesses and later with 5 more to drive it home. Some got it and some didn’t. Some rebelled against it.
But why women only? The part that could not be confused was that it was between a man and a woman i.e. God and the Church. It was supposed to be reflected in the marriage of a man and a woman but that institution has been perverted and confused for years, i.e. divorces, remarriages, step children, fighting, three-somes, adulteries ad infinitum.
The healings that L.S. and A.S. were part of were symbolic also just as the consummation was. We are to be naked and unashamed before God. Michael was doing in a literal way what God does to us. We become naked before God and then God can place his hand on our heart and heal us. A sexual contact would have confused the issue. That is why Michael Travesser said he was very careful to not touch any sexual parts. That is why L.S. said it was not sexual. A.S. called her sternum the breast because she did not know the name of the sternum and the whole chest area is called the breast. It is how we have used it as a church for years.
It was definitely a religious healing practice and nothing sexual took place by Michael’s testimony, by L.S.’s testimony and by A.S.’s testimony and the judge agreed in a whispered moment with the lawyers. It was not sexual. It was for healing only.
Michael Travesser is and has been always following his conscience in this regard from instruction from God for years. You can go back and read ALL his writings and find nothing in there that can be construed any other way, unless you want to take an isolated statement here or there or an isolated section and try to make something out of it from ones own imagination.
I know this may not help you at all, since you seem to have your mind made up, but it may help those who seem to have a mind towards truth and justice. But if you want to understand Michael Travesser and what he means I would suggest not going to Sam Redman for he puts his own spin on it, but go to the actual writings themselves and read it in its fullness there.
Michael has waited patiently for months for the court to come to its senses and see the situation for what it was. That is why he has been eating and for no other reason. He is a VERY patient man. But there comes a limit to how long one can wait until the evidence is that the state does not want to find justice or truth. There is a political agenda and so the time has come to bring it to a head and have it over.
That time is now. Thus the fast is imperative.
For the state to force feed would be a violation of his conscience and that is something that is adverse to Michael Travesser for he has never forced anyone else’s conscience. He advocates freedom of conscience and always has to the best of my knowledge. That is what the Constitution of the US is supposed to be about, but that has gone to the wayside years ago. Men must bow to the state’s ideas of what is right and wrong. Our conscience is no longer allowed to be dominate our lives.
If the naked healings were not sexual, then homosexuality should not have been an issue, and the men of Strong City should have been having non-sexual naked healing session with “Michael”.
You say that Mary was impregnated by God(Not Mary and harem of other women) and brought forth the Son of God. Didnt Wayne claim to be messiah(son of God) and then start sleeping with the women? Was he trying to impregnate the bride and bring forth himself?
Johnny, you do have an axe to grind with Michael Travesser. It is apparent by your last two posts. Be real, not phony.
James there were healing sessions with men there–more than once. I was with Wayne and after we talked we hugged. I felt his virtue come into me. I felt like I did not want to let him go and embraced him for as long as I could. I even said so. I said, “I will not let you go…”–and I won’t–ever.
According to the Strong City site it is Day 28 of the fast. Since Jeff is still updating I have to assume Wayne is still fasting. Now he probably got a bit of a reprieve with the special nourishment he received from his people on Wednesday, so that may have delayed the tubes. Or maybe, the doctor decided not to intervene with Wayne’s wishes.
Maybe I am wrong in my interpretation but I never read anywhere that the doctors would force feed Wayne. What I read was that it was their decision and they were permitted to use tubes if that is what they deemed right. I guess I am throwing out that perhaps that is what has happened? Thoughts anyone?
Milton, can you directly deal with the issue? Were you and the other men naked with Wayne? If not, why not?
Hope – the counter of days appears to be automated – I don’t think Jeff is altering it regularly.
Since the prison has to protect Mr. Bent’s medical privacy, I anticipate we won’t know about any treatment until Jeff chooses to disclose it.
Milton, please oblige me with a response. If hugging was good enough for the men, why couldn’t the young virgins be treated the same as the men? Couldn’t their spiritual little minds grasp it as well as the big “Macho” men? They understand hugs as well as the next person. Why the literal stuff, when the spiritual (hugging, sort of) would have worked as well? And the older women who also wanted “Healings” with Wayne. Why were they bunched up with the men? Equal strokes for equal folks, please pardon the unintended pun there. But by all the appearances it still looks like Wayne only wanted the young, good looking women for his world class pronouncement to the world about his twist on things. It really wasn’t nessessary, now was it? Why did you Milton have to see it the way it came out? I mean the hug was good enough for you, was it???? You had to see the young women do more? Did you really need that for you to “Get It” ?
Hope, I believe EMC is correct. The counter seems to change automatically and there have been no new posts since the 24th. I wrote part of this on Prudence’s site and am reposting it here instead of rewriting it because I’m in a lazy mood.
If he’s still fasting, which unless he’s had a change of heart I think is probable, he’s at the very least getting fluid from an IV.
Dehydration is more of a problem at this point than weight loss from not eating. When people are ill, i.e., after an operation, the main emphasis is keeping them hydrated. If they can’t start eating after a few days then the Doc will have to try a different method, i.e., a nasogastric feeding tube. So the feeding tube will become an issue if he continues to refuse food, but HIPPA laws will prohibit the Prison from releasing any medical info.
Since Jeff only sends out press releases or writes those “heart wrenching” stories when he thinks they’ll get some “good” press from it and being force fed is not good news (except that it will keep him alive for a while) that’s probably why they haven’t updated their website. I’m pretty sure if “Daddy” had gone off the hunger strike, we would have heard about it.
WB’s story was off the front page of the online and paper news after the story on KRQE on the 24th. There are a lot bigger stories happening in NM at the moment than a cult leader in prison who won’t eat.
Milton said “Michael has waited patiently for months for the court to come to its senses and see the situation for what it was. That is why he has been eating and for no other reason. He is a VERY patient man”. Unfortunately, as someone once told Jeff or WB, the wheels of justice turn slowly. He has only been incarcerated 9 months now and his case is slowly moving through the legal system.
There are specific rules to follow and cases don’t move through appeals quickly. On 09/04/09 his lawyer filed a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari with the NM Supreme Court which is still pending as of Sept. 28. The nmcourts.gov site gets updated when they get a chance and not everything that has happened in the case has been published there although eventually everything that happens in his case will be on that site. Usually a Petition is filed after you have exhausted your appeal with the Court of Appeals but since I can’t find any opinion, published or non published from the COA, I’m guessing that his lawyer is trying to speed things up, maybe anticipating an unfavorable ruling from the COA because they denied his release on bond while on appeal. The COA website is only updated through part of August so perhaps in a week or so they will update through the present time.
Regardless, WB is not being patient and his fasting temper tantrum only slows things down because the courts had to stop what they were doing and deal with it. District Judge John Pope said “I am not going to hasten Mr. Bent’s death.” The prison is going to do everything in their power NOT to let him die on their watch.
When Jesus gave His life for us, He didn’t go kicking and screaming against the evilness of man. What a difference!
James and Former LOR member:
So you will not be left with an excuse I will explain it again.
God does not deal with everyone the same. Naaman the Syrian had to dip in the river Jordan 7 times in order to be cured of Leprosy. The ten lepers who came to Jesus were touched by him and commanded to go and show themselves to the priests. Why weren’t they required to go and dip in the Jordan? Why wasn’t Naaman just touched by Elijah? The centurion who came to Jesus to have his servant healed told Jesus to not to bother and come, but speak the word only. Why didn’t Jesus go and touch him? Why didn’t Jesus heal everyone? Some were not healed. Why was the Phoenician woman treated like a dog by Jesus? Why would he be so rude to her like that? Why didn’t Jesus go and heal Lazarus when his sisters begged him to? Why did he let him die and then wait four days? That was kind of rude wasn’t it? After all Lazarus was one of his best friends! Why would he spit on some dirt and put the mud on one man’s eyes but not on others?
I cannot speak for the other men I was not there for each instance. I can only speak for myself. Was I naked physically? No, but I was naked and open with Michael about myself and what kind of person I am. I was totally naked and vulnerable with him. I gave myself to him as I was with no excuses. In turn God gave Himself to me through Michael Travesser.
I would not expect you to grasp these things, since you want to focus on skin and not the heart. You want to box the Spirit of God in to doing things in your way and manner, and He won’t–ever!
As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Son of Man comes. They were eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage until the flood came and took them all away. Eight people believed a crazy old man who built a boat when it had never rained. They waited to see if it would rain and did not get on. Even the dumb animals were smarter than men who were supposed to be created in the image of God. The flood came and when they wanted on it was too late. They mocked and made fun to their own destruction.
As it was so shall it be again. Only a few–just a few will understand.
First of all a big thanks to EMC and KM for addressing the Fast updating by Strong City. I actually was wondering about the automatic element myself, as a couple times around midnight I have gone there and it seemed to magically be already updated. So you confirmed what I sensed too.
OK we are not privy to what is happening just yet. Now being a tad suspicious of these people, I am thinking that “father,” has not yet told Jeff what to say. I mean how is one going to explain this one? I am sure an interesting explanation is being created for us all to ponder.
I wish the wheels of justice would turn a little faster myself. I cannot figure out why the judge came down so hard with a sentence that seems over the top for the offense. If Wayne just becomes a bit more patient perhaps he will have something positive happen on the Appeal.
As for you Milton, I certainly have to take issue with your trying to pass Wayne’s actions as “heart,” actions not “skin”. I read all of what was posted by Wayne and all of his women and it was certainly just not about the heart and very much about the skin. Remember skin to skin? And now trying to explain or defend why there were no naked men or acceptable older women for consummations just is not going to cut it here for me. I don’t think you will find many takers here. Sorry Milton!
Some great posts here. Mark thanks again for giving us this opportunity to share our thoughts.
In Wayne’s protest announcing his fast. He again made the claim that his actions were not sexual. Were they? Wayne’s writings about his sex with the two messengers indicates that those acts were indeed sexual:
Of course, all the full sex “consummation” acts with the seven girls and women were “sexual” (we know that), because a man cannot achieve erection without being sexually aroused. And, for him to say that the two underaged girls’ first sessions (which were the same initial step as all the others who eventually did have intercourse) were just healing was certainly a clever legal tactic. It didn’t work in the courtroom, because it just wasn’t (and isn’t) believable.
Lastly, in Wayne’s booklet called, “The Vision” which described and chronicled his plans (and activities) of having sex with the seven virgins (two of whom had to be substituted with older women) he was quite clear that it wasn’t going to be with men,
Wayne could have easily laid naked with men (and had sex with them) if he had been doing all of this somehow in a nonsexual way. But, since doing that would be “homosexual” by his own definition, that means all the rest (with the females) was indeed sexual. But, everyone knows that (it’s really a pointless discussion).
I have always maintained that Wayne should have admitted and defended all of his sexual ministry and confessed (facts which he had already published in “The Vision”) that the two victims were indeed slated for sexual intercourse, but that he realized the illegality of what he was doing (Jeff warned him) and stopped after only laying naked with a bit of touching (which is the truth). Don’t forget that he laid chest-to-chest naked with “Healed,” according to her testimony. You think he wasn’t touching something intimate? Instead, his attorney filed a motion to have “The Vision” publication excluded from evidence (I was ready as an expert witness to present it). They thought the lie would be a better approach.
If Wayne had simply admitted to everything, he could have stated how sorry he was and likely would have received a lesser sentence. In fact, something most people don’t know is that Wayne was offered a plea bargain for a very mild sentence, but he decided that he would be better off in open court. The truth would have set him free (probably merely probation).
— Sam
He did not accept the plea bargain because he was telling the truth. Liars will seek an easy way out.
I am praying for Michael. I tried to watch the video but it made me cry and I couldn’t handle it.
Trial Transcripts
If anyone would like to read the trial transcripts they can be found here:
http://strongcity2.info/trial/
Well stated Milton! “A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things”.
These words from God so true!
Lets take a good look at what Mr Bent has brought forth!
Broken marriages, ruined lives, deaths, destruction, children sent to foster care, a dwindling group of very unhappy people…need I write more?
Do we see “good treasure and good things” I think not!
Milton, the poor man is mentally insane and his followers are more than injurious to him for going along with this.
At least lets pray its mental insanity and not pure evilness of following the voice of Satan. Perhaps is both.
But I truly believe in this verse here “Ye shall know them by their fruits”
I’ve read most of what David Mead has written both here and another website.
His words speak of a man who is soft, gentle, kindhearted, meek. mild and most of all is humbled.
He is asking forgiveness for what he’d done long ago trying desperately to right a wrong as he feels guilty for his part of the LOR going off Biblical teachings.
He is someone I’d love to spend time with as his “Fruits” are not bitter, rotten and sickening.
Again, what scripture speaks of, “Fruits” Milton, Fruits.
Are they sweet or are they rotten, bitter and hard to swallow? Do those reading your words find you humble, meek, mild, kindhearted and asking forgiveness for your part in this?
Only God knows our hearts and true motivations, but He has given us the “rights” to fruit pick.
This way we will know if we are on the right path and for us to steer clear of those selling their rotten fruits.
Like a street vendor with fruit cart filled with rotten fruits. Only hungry flies and maggots find it delectable!
Perhaps we can find more verses to “slap” with!
Don’t we all feel good now?
May God forgive those who have used His word in such manner.
The bible is HIS sovereign word meant to heal and never wound or injure and should NEVER be used in like manner.
I am sorry Milton. Not a single thing you listed had a “Nudity” clause attached to it. These examples are about following instructions and involved the exercise of faith. Jesus touched people all the time to heal them, but he never pulled people aside into a convienant nearby bedroom and disrobed them, took off his clothes and lain with them Skin to Skin for extra effect, or to teach them something that they would have missed if they kept their clothes on. I remember the old Minister Trainings from the LOR about 20 years ago, and Wayne told us to take off our clothes to be naked and unashamed before God, and a bunch of us would resist, some left and some fumbled with their buttons and zippers, and there was this one woman who was ready to go all the way and she had no problem taking off her clothes… and she would have, had nott Wayne stopped her and ended the exercise. He had proven his point. I don’t remember if you were there Milton at that time. She never did join the church, good thing. You are right about this one thing though, in that I will never grasp this new doctrine of “touchy feely” in Messiah’s bedroom to receive healing. I’d rather take two aspirins before I hop into bed according to Doctor’s orders, and I mean a “real” doctor, not the Wayne Bent Physican who plays doctor the same way little boys and girls do when they play doctor while growing up, and touching their “Private” parts like a doctor does. Wayne’s Master’s degree from Loma Linda was not a degree covering medicine. I think the State of New Mexico did the right thing in removing this man from society. True wisdom does come from God, and it is expressed in the Word of God, the Bible, and as you do so quote, the wise shall understand. I seriuosly fear for your mortal soul Mr. Bernheisel. I will continue to pray for you, Wayne and the rest of Strong City. Hopefully you will see your error and repent.
Hello Carey (Clytie) and John,
I am sorry that you cannot allow yourself to speak kindly to me. Good thoughts to me as always in the past. Good will between us.
My thoughts towards you have not changed. I still hold you both in esteem as always. You may not be able to admit this to me openly now, I understand, but you know this as well as I do. Funny how that works in a cult.
It saddens me that you feel the need to speak to me this way, not for anything I have done to you, but for what you imagine of my relation to Wayne, as you describe it. Because I do not attribute multiple fornication to God, nor to His Son, but to Wayne, you feel obliged to treat me with disgust.
If I would just give the nod to what he does with his organ, all would be fine between us.
Actually, my view of what Wayne is doing with woman has nothing to do with us. Why should it? How should it? Yet you make it separate us, and also separate between everybody else that loves you. I asked you privately if you would like to hear from your former best friend Irene Swartz. You didn’t even respond? How bizarre. She may have no clue about Wayne’s recent activities, yet you won’t even give her a second thought. Are you ready to treat her as you do me? Why, for what reason? This is a shame,
My thoughts remain kindly toward you. Why shouldn’t they; you have done me no damage. I would have responded to something you wrote to me now, several times, but there was nothing of substance to which to respond, one way or the other.
I expect that sooner or later, Wayne’s continued fornication will begin to wane and loose it’s ability to satisfy. Hopefully sooner than later, but I guarantee it will happen. And then, in that day you will look around and say, what happened to us? How did we get this far out? Where are all our friends? What happened to the Lord? Where was He during all this? Now Wayne’s gone, along with his voice. No one hears his voice any more. It died with Wayne. There is no one to tell us what it said, and no one to verify our voice for us.
When that day comes, as it has for most everybody with which Wayne has had control, except for a small contingent, your real friends will be there for you. You may not be able to recognize them now, not openly, but in that day, it will come natural to remember them suddenly. Funny how that works.
I really enjoy what the former LOR members have to say her, thank you so much for your contributions.
Wayne’s Own Words … once again.
Every time someone from Strong City tries to defend Mr. Bent there is one person that can tear down their defense each and every time. Who might that be? Well of course it is Wayne Bent himself! There is no point posting again what Sam Redman posted earlier but it is crystal clear to me by those passages he sites Wayne proves what he meant with the sexual interactions. He would not have been disfellowshipping for actions that were healing or religious now would he? This man had sex with other people’s wives. This man had sex with virgin girls. This man almost had sex with underage virgins. Consummations in order to happen have to be pleaurable for at least the male or it does not happen, Mr. Bent. Or are you unique in that way?
And then there is the quote about sex and its purpose being men and women. That sort of leaves out all of you men now doesn’t it? Milton jump in here any time and try and dispute these words of Wayne’s. How do you supporters of all things Wayne/Michael says deal with the man’s own words when they are shown to you in black and white?
And Ruth I am sorry for your pain seeing Wayne in that wheel chair. That was really quite pathetic. And all because the man chooses to lie over and over again. I disagree about the plea bargain because the whole trial was a lie and the jury saw through all the lies. Just think he could have asked for forgiveness and undoubtedly be out by now and back home with all of his people.
As was said, the truth shall set one free.
In Wayne’s own words
Good post, Hope. I have a follow-up comment regarding Wayne Bent’s words in reference to trial testimony. In Jeff Bent’s letter, which Mark Horner posted (the topic of this thread), Jeff comments about what the judge said off-the-record in a sidebar. But, what is more interesting is something said “on” the record in the testimony of “Healed.” The jury convicted Bent of contributing to “Healed’s” delinquency and perhaps this explains why. Introduced into evidence is a letter which she wrote to the DA.
It is important to focus on Healed’s wording in this piece of (actual) trial evidence. Healed describes details of laying with both of them naked. It is a vulgar act for an older man to be doing with a child. Picture the way she details the position of their two naked bodies,
Think of this; a naked man is on top of a naked child, with his chest somehow positioned below her breasts, and his head laying on her “sternum.” That’s another way of saying “between her breasts.” Obviously, in that frontal position, his midsection would be draped across her naked genital area, his head would be on her chest between her breasts. This is a very incriminating statement. Side note: Mark Horner originally posted Healed’s letter to the DA on Beyond90seconds.com (prior to the trial).
Wayne Bent taught about the “between the breasts” position
How significant was the “head between the breasts,” graphically described by “Healed?” To Wayne Bent, it was an important fulfillment of scripture. Wayne Bent’s teaching about the “Song of Solomon” was a key to his laying naked with the seven virgins. In the following quote he teaches specifically about this very position, even discussing the “imagery” of laying with his head placed exactly where “Healed” described.
Bent specifically wrote, “His head right over her heart,” in reference to being “between her breasts,” which is the “sternum” location. Bent’s own words, as “Messiah”, established a blueprint for his literal sexual activities with the young girls. That Bent quote, compared with Healed’s statement, is quite astounding. Jeff Bent needs to realize that on appeal… all trial evidence will be reviewable. This is devastating.
I am praying for dear Michael today. My thoughts and my heart are with him. I believe that Michael is innocent and should come home.
Jeri, good post. You wrote:
“Broken marriages, ruined lives, deaths, destruction, children sent to foster care, a dwindling group of very unhappy people…need I write more?”
In all the comments here about the fast, the wake of Wayne’s ministry has not been told. Not even a little bit. There is too much suffering to convey it all. One little example of it just comes to mind right now, the disappointment of my son. He had put what meager monies he could save into what was promised to be a “school for youth”. He had hoped to attend it.
After some years, when it became obvious that it was never going to materialize, he asked Wayne for his money back. Wayne told him that such a request was “highly unusual.”. What was highly unusual was for our man to make good on one of his promises. do you think my son got any of his money back. I don’t even need to say if he did, now do I. Imagine that. Everybody knows the answer to that question, if in LOR. So much for the graciousness of the man Wayne Bent.
People who had dedicated their entire lives, including savings to this man and his “ministry” were sent out of Dodge with only enough money to get out of town, if that. And if they had a trailer that Jeff or Wayne wanted for someone more “worthy”, they had to leave without it. Everybody at Strong City knows these stories, but they must forget them when they assay to tell how the object of their fondest affections has never done anything whatsoever in all the time they have known him that was against his integrity. Words that should only be reserved for the Savior. One day they will face those words again.
The Savior on the other hand, the blessings in His wake have never been told, not the half of them. Not even a small part. All those kind words from LOR are lavished on the wrong man. If all that Wayne had done were to come to the light of day, how many years prison would be fair? How many years would it take to repair the damage done? And if he were free, how many years would he spend repairing his damage? None. How many know he would just proceed with the damage?
People look in astonishment on his sentence, not yet served, and wonder at it. For what he did, which in their minds and his was nothing to deserve it, they think the sentence too long. In order to do this, they have to ignore a couple of things, cause and effect. And God. If the sentence was too long for what he was charged with, he wasn’t really charged with much now was he. Not when the whole of his “ministry” of destruction is considered.
Why not bless God and say “Cause and effect”? Why not attribute it to God. If he was charged incorrectly, why not see it as the hand of God that intervened? Oh, you don’t believe in cause and effect, or in God. Not believing in Him, what do you have left to believe in? What is left for you to believe in—a cruel judge, an evil state and a prison with vegetarian trays? Not believing in God (nor in cause and effect) this is what you have left to believe in.
If this (Wayne’s) story had happened to someone who came to one of Wayne’s seminars, if they told him about the cruel judge and how it wasn’t their fault, he would tell them what? “I know what it looks like. We all know what it looks like, but guess what, it was you and nobody else who did it. When you see this, then you will be set free. Now tell it again and tell us the truth this time.”
In the Jeff Bent letter to the media (at the top of this topic), Jeff continued their trial position that, “These encounters were for the purpose of healing prior emotional trauma in a safe setting.”
Following is a 2008 Wayne Bent statement, which he made in defense of himself (this was about eight months prior to his trial), relating to his sexual ministry. This is interesting because the defensive position he took here is exactly what I would have recommended he take in the courtroom (to admit you did have a sexual ministry, but distinguish that you backed off and didn’t go “all the way” with the underaged girls). However, his sexual activities were something he (and his defense team) chose to completely ignore (and hide) at the trial, instead presenting the spin that these two girls were just isolated “healing” events.
Wayne was on the right track in that defensive statement, but in the trial he not only didn’t tell his “sexual ministry” story, but they completely hid it (something he now seems to regret). In his own letter, announcing his fast, currently posted on their website, he says that he was not permitted to tell their full story at the trial. But, in reality at the trial he evaded any reference about his “prophesy,” which he earlier had said (in hundreds of pages) predicted and commanded to have sex with seven women, although the DA asked him point blank cross examination questions which would have allowed him to have told his whole history and how God commanded him to have sex with all those women. Go take a look at the trial transcripts on this link and read Wayne Bent’s entire testimony on the stand and then compare what he said in the trial with what he now says in his fasting announcement letter, where Wayne writes, “I was not permitted to explain our religion.”
http://strongcity2.info/trial/
— Sam
Showing the Lies
Another incredible post showing the lies and twists of Wayne Bent.
Wayne said:
For me that really says it all doesn’t it? And Wayne even uses the word sex, not healing.
Jan
Yes, at least eight months prior to going to trial, Wayne was quite open about his sexual crusade, but then (I think on advice of his incompetent attorney) they took another tactic, stopped talking about it and removed all references to it… took down the 2 hour movie he referred to in that statement and “The Vision” online booklet, both of which explained him having sex with the legal aged virgins and the book by the so-called, Two Witnesses, which explained them having sex with Wayne. The day they took it down is the day I started doing the cache captures.
Then his attorney moved in the trial to prohibit these documents and to create a whole new reality about what the Wayne Bent ministry was (presenting it as sort of like what it was prior to the year 2000). It was the method they chose (and it failed) and now Wayne is saying that he was “not permitted to explain our religion.”
If Wayne had explained his religion as a sexual ministry, he knows he would have painted himself in a bad light, so he tried to avoid it. They would have found him guilty on all counts(like Father said!)
Maybe if Wayne had actually paid for an attorney and not gone the “poor man,” route he would have gotten a competent council that would have done exactly as Sam suggested. I don’t think Sarah Montoya was skilled enough to know how to defend a sexual ministry. That would have taken an adept lawyer.
I do not think she really knew the depths for which Wayne had told all these sexual tales all over the net either. She never would have had the time to read what was necessary for a thorough understanding of this. Plus, much of it had been wiped clean.
It would have been so simple and Wayne could have stood proud and said what he did and how he stopped short of the virgin girls. I honestly think he would have gotten very little time. I believe it was all the lies that infuriated the State of New Mexico. Maybe one year for each lie?
How do you defend something that is wrong?
I agree Jan.
What is bizarre is that Wayne spent years defending publicly with very sophisticated media devices his sexual ministry, but then when he went to trial he let an attorney convince him not to defend it on the stand. I think that this is similar to situations where men have affairs and are being accused of a another crime and their attorney quickly gets the story of their affairs out, so they are not hiding anything. Sometimes that works and other times not. But, the general defensive wisdom today is to get all the story out there (they call it the “warts and all” approach). It takes some sophisticated lying to fool a jury and in Wayne’s case all their efforts at misrepresenting his ministry with Allasso and Gabriel and Wayne on the stand just came off as phony (which it was).
“The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” would have been the right approach.
SAM DOCUMENTS THE CHANGING CONTEXT
It is most clear to anyone who is honest that reality changes for Wayne Bent from moment to moment. Sam has fleshed this out for us with documentation. This means that Wayne’s worshipers must keep track of his present context or they will be calling it sex (his previous term for it) while he has changed and calls is it healing, for instance.
Nothing this man says can be trusted for it will soon be changed to fit his new context. And how do the LORites make sense of all this? They don’t, it is impossible to make sense of it as we have seen from Milton, especially. Mostly just blasting everybody and everything for whatever, and calling it all like Christ who was supposedly just like Wayne in all things, for didn’t people wonder at Him too?
To play these kinds of games with your own mind, there are consequences. Milton and the others who write here are exhibiting what happens to your mind as they tell how their man/messiah/god has never, ever, in all the years done anything but said loving things and gone around sacrificing himself from person to person. This is enough to make a sane person ….. (fill in the blank).
To respond to their “logic” respectfully, as we all do here is really inappropriate, except for one thing. What makes us treat what they say as something believable is the fact that we know their minds are gone and this is a most sad fact. And also we hope they can get them back. Some of us have gotten them back, me for one. So see, there is hope. But in my case, it was not outside help that did it, but it came from the inside, Wayne did it for me—his cruelty—which I saw for what it was, instead of for what it wasn’t. I think him for it still today. God used him mightily in my case.
Well, Ron, his position could have been, “Yes, I was planning to have sex with the underaged girls, because I thought God commanded it, but, my conscience and better judgement stopped me and I am now really sorry about what I did with them.” Not defending that, but asking for mercy.
Telling it all “like it was” and showing his change of heart and describing how he didn’t go further with them would have illustrated that what he actually did was really a minor sexual infraction legally (which is true) as compared to a full sexual act. A light sentence or probation would have most likely been the outcome.
— Sam
If the State was willing to offer a Plea Bargain to Wayne Bent then it shows to me that honesty was what they were hoping for. A little repentance and asking for mercy and forgiveness. He could have as Sam said, pointed out how his conscience kept him from going through with these underage consummations.
Even though what he did with the “of age ladies,” might be frowned on by many, it is certainly not illegal. I think at this point had Wayne been honest, he would be back home living the good life, with his flock in order.
What do we as parents always teach our children? Tell the truth! A simple life lesson that seems to been left behind for Wayne Bent.
Bent’s writes about having sexual with the seven virgins
Wayne Bent produced an online booklet called, “The Vision”. In this multi-page production Bent proudly and boldly described his vision to have sex with seven young ladies from his group including the two underaged girls. You will be shocked to read how Wayne justifies that it is moral to have sex with an minor.
Shortly after writing this a lot of people ( like his son Jeff), were telling him this was either wrong or legally self-destructive. And then Wayne had a message from God not to follow through and have sex with the two minor girls. But, here in Wayne’s own words you can see that he was certainly planning it for a while and that makes it hard to believe that when he had earlier laid naked with the two girls it wasn’t, as was said later, merely a “healing” exercise (you be the judge). I have “The Vision” preserved in its entirety for any future reference and study.
— Sam
We must remember that while the jury ONLY heard the evidence presented, the Judge who sentenced him knew everything. He saw ALL the evidence from both sides and made his sentencing ruling on that evidence. As well, the Judge could not depart from the mandatory sentence of at least 3 years for the 2nd degree felony.
A few quotes from criminal cases I found on the Internet where the Judge enhanced a sentence and why a Judge would do that:
“At a sentencing hearing, the burden of proof is now a preponderance of the evidence, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt and hearsay is allowed.”
“Where the judge sentences a defendant, he will consider the crime itself, the prior criminal record of the defendant and other related circumstances.”
“Consideration of aggravating factors as events surrounding the crime, the defendant’s character, pattern of conduct indicating whether the defendant is a serious threat to society, and the defendant’s prospects for rehabilitation.”
The Judge obviously thought, as do many people who post here and those who read his “little story” in the news that he is a sexual predator who was not and is still not even a little bit sorry for what he did.
I don’t know if that’s the end of the story for him as I’m not sure if the COA or Supreme Court only decide on the evidence presented at trial or if like the District Judge they see ALL the evidence. And the Appeals court might find that something was wrong in the trial and order a new trial or sentencing (if WB is still alive when they finally rule).
But as Jan pointed out it’s a good lesson for all of us to be honest and tell the truth. Honesty goes a long way especially if you’ve published everything (WB himself said that he kept nothing hidden) and along comes someone like Sam who finds it when you do decide to try and hide it!
Sam, it is most difficult for Wayne’s defenders to ignore what Wayne wrote here. You have it posted for them lest they forget. But they are on now to saying it wasn’t sex. This, while you have saved it for us all. He was instructed by no less than “God” to have sex with all of them, including the under aged girls. And now they have to say it wasn’t so. Was never intended to be anything but healing. How does one get this far away from reality?
Actually the better question is this; How do the sane go insane? Is there some mechanism for it? Here we see it happening. Does anyone realize that when you say one thing today about what you did, and then tomorrow you say another, that you didn’t, the opposite of what you said you did yesterday, it has an effect on your mind. You become mindless. The truth doesn’t really matter. And then you expect others to become mindless with you. Mindless or mental. Mental meaning unable to tell the truth from the lie being told you. Well not everybody here believes the lies being told them. Why is this? Because we still have our minds. Or we got them back, having once given them away, as is the case with some of us. Praise God for this.
Your mind might function fine in some ways, but when this happens to you, things spiritual have no meaning to you any more. Things like truth. They are just there to be changed upon your whim. And if you are a leader of a cult, they all change with you on command. Just say the word and it is taken as from God Himself. And then change it as you like, depending on if you have to go to court.
You tell your followers you hear the voice of God. Leaders who do this (prophets etc) are free to hear God change his mind from one moment to the other. If you believe them, who can change your mind, God is speaking. If God changes His mind, who are you to say He shouldn’t? To proceed to tell god’s latest lie for him.
To follow Wayne’s mind back and forth from one lie to another, and believe one thing today and another, just the opposite tomorrow, you have to trick yourself into thinking it won’t do you any damage.
Some people spend their lives trying to get others to believe in their little black box that no one has ever seen. Strong City spends it’s life trying to get others to believe in a voice that Wayne says he hears in his chair. They see his chair, but they don’t hear his voice. No matter, they believe whatever it is supposed to be saying at the moment.
THE OPENNESS OF WAYNE
In one of Milton’s latest rants against me, before he decided to duck out of sight, after it became obvious that he wasn’t going to deliver on his promises to expose all my lusts with various women etc., he tried to make a big point. Milton’s point was in how messiah had always been so open about what he was up to. I don’t think anyone has ever spoken to this “openness” of Wayne’s. Milton thinks he can get a lot of mileage out of it.
Well, perhaps I should expose Wayne’s openness here. It has come up again, what with the posting of it for us all to look at again.
When Wayne began fornicating, all he had to sell it to his followers was that god had told him too, and wouldn’t god tell them the same? He had a text that spoke of the seven women, which could easily be the seven churches (women) of Revelation, which comprise all churches throughout history. So he knew he didn’t have much to go on. How to make it look like prophecy in action? Another way to say it, how to keep from losing any more of the honest souls that may have still been in his camp.
The answer; make himself look fearless. Put it on the internet. Let everyone read it as he did it, step by step (that he now intends to portray differently and doesn’t want known). How would this accomplish his desires? No one could say he was fooling around with women in secret. How cleverly he avoided that accusation. His followers looked on in amazement, bewildered with messiah’s openness and stayed put, for the most part. Still, some saw through the smoke screens and left as best they could. This is why he was so open and how me made Milton so proud.
But David, by my count there were at least 10 women he either fornicated with or committed adultery with.
How did he get from 7 to 10? Is there a scripture where he can make that be okay?
SCRIPTURES TO COVER ALL OF THEM
Yes, KM, you should know that. I am surprised at you. Haven’t you noticed? I thought you were following this case more closely. The answer to your question sis yes, there is always a scripture for another woman or three.
If you will remember, we almost got that scripture for the other three to which you refer. Remember after one day at the trial, a reporter asked him how many women he had sex with back at the ranch? It seemed a logical question and most innocent, given all that Wayne had reported about them–just asking if someone had ever thought to count them all?
Well, that was where the text would have been brought out, but instead, something about the way the question was asked, perhaps not reverently enough for messiah’s liking, our man said something like, “You just ended your interview.” Then he laughed nervously and walked away. Since that day, no text has been forthcoming for your question.
Actually, let me make a prediction here, If he wants to include the ones he calls the seven, and the two that were slated for it, but had to wait, and then also the extra women involved to which you refer, he will have to add some scriptures together. Adding several of them together, he can get the numbers to match up properly. Match with the total numbers involved. And if not of course, he runs the risk of it all looking like messiah style hanky panky.
No scriptures for all them and someone might start to think it suspicious. God always has the right numbers for what he does.
Of course! I forgot about that mean reporter asking such an intrusive question!
I agree totally with you, GOD always has the right numbers, times and places for what he does. Man is the one who screws it up.
Oh well, on to the routine of my daily life. A trip to the grocery store, a few bills to pay and dinner to make. I’m sure glad no one in my home is fasting, it’s hard enough making dinner for anywhere from 2 – 8 depending on schedules, etc.
Enjoy this beautiful day the Lord made!
Not that anyone is counting or keeping track. Is this really nessessary? I don’t want Wayne getting credit for things he did not do. My count is as follows:
2- legal wives from before, whom is is divorced from.
2- The “Two Witnesses”
5- The original Legal age Virgins who came forward
2- The two who replaced the underage virgins who Wayne never had a sexual thought with, but the two who relaced them who really were not virgins, well he did go ahead and sleep with them as well.
1- His daughter-in-law, Jeff’s wife.
12- Grand total that I know of. But lets not forget Wayne was in the Navy and all those Ports of Call that we know nothing about. Come on folks.
You know, you walk into any Honky-Tonk and you can find men who have scored much more than out favorite Casanova from Strong City. Some that many women in a week. Does it really matter at this stage of the game how many women Wayne has had sex with? I was in the Air Force and I have a few notches in my…. I’m sorry, I forgot to carve any notches in anything. I’ve been around the block, and so has many of the other men who are reading these pages. Most dirty laundry if left out on the line too long will eventually sun bleach itself white. Light does that to darkness. Where have we heard that before?
I do not intend to be rude to anyone here, but it seems you all are being very critical. Is all you have left to do gossip about how many women Wayne Bent slept with. Do you realize allot of men and women have sex when they have only known each other a week or two? Maybe you should look at how many teen pregnancy’s there are. Girls are having sex at 14 now a days. And you tears Wayne Bent down for what he did. Can you trust that the same God that told Abraham to kill his son, and Elijah 400 men, and Moses all the people who bowed down to the golden calf, and who told Hosea to marry a whore, can you trust that the same God would tell Wayne Bent to do what he did? As you know, people are free to leave Strong City whenever they want, proof of that, there have been lots of people leave Strong City. A large quantity of believers live off the land, some near by, others in other parts of the country and world. David Mead, you have never been to Strong City, you are making all your judgments on your time with Wayne Bent, years and years ago. Are some of you lusting after sleeping with women, and that is why you are so offended over Wayne Bent.
Offense over a rape is just, but this was no rape or molestation. Lets all keep in mind, this whole thing came up because these Women went to Wayne, and requested healing.
Jan, The quote you gave does not show Wayne to be lying, there were the seven messengers who poured out the 7 last plagues, and the 7 women of Isaiah 4. 2 different prophecies are at hand here.
Jonney, Michael has often said he wasn’t involved in sexual activities as a young man, but none of you believe what he says about himself now, so why would you believe what he said about his youth.
David Mead, I agree with others to go start your own blog it is very easy to do.
This thread has gotten even more interesting today, and I did not think that was possible. Really seeing all of what Wayne posted regarding these consummations and why they were necessary is fascinating.
And today I had a chance to reread some of the Transcripts (thank you for having them on line again!) This trial was a sham in so many ways. The Defense tried so hard to make Wayne not the head man of his little tribe and yet we know he was. These people cannot even have one independent thought without him commanding it. Look how they jump through the new hoops he has thrown out now. All the sexual relations were not sexual, when he said exactly that they were. No wonder the good Lord is displeased with Mr. Bent and is causing him to be not in a very happy place right now.
I agree Johnny and to Anonymous that it doesn’t matter how many the grand total of Wayne’s little conquests really were. Men, and some women too, stray and have multiple partners throughout their lives. Unless the sex is with one under the age of 18, it does not really matter, at least not to us.
The much bigger picture here is how Wayne over and over again posted all over the internet that he was told by his God that he needed to have these consummations and he describes them in many postings as sexual. Now he is saying, oh no, they were not sexual, they were spiritual and all about healing. I remember his smile in the video about enjoying it!!
This page of posts proves it all and what it really was and is, sexual not healing. Read it and repent, Mr. Bent.
My point exactly. I was just wondering if Rumormill was going to stretch the number beyond the truth, thats why I broke out the adding machine. Everyone is entitled to their private things in their lives, but it wasn’t Wayne who tried to keep these things secret about what went on behind his closed doors. No, He went head and posted it on the WWW. What did he expect would happen?
David — you have made another very good observation (occasionally you make some very interesting comments). What you said about Wayne using his total openness as a means of manipulation is an excellent conclusion. Openness (the see-I-have-nothing-to-hide technique) is a very powerfully persuasive machiavellian method which often tends to cause people to conclude that errant behavior is being done with (at the very least) a good conscience. We often tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on questionable deeds when we observe that they are being “up front” and not hiding anything.
What surprises me is that anyone so practiced in the subtleties of this very exacting method of looking as though he is acting appropriately, while defying conventional morality, would not have availed himself of the same shielding (and masquerading) technique in the courtroom. Jurors are manipulatable too (and many defense attorneys know how to use the “show it all” strategy). Had he told it all there they might have had the same reaction as his followers…. thinking, “How could he be evil? He is so open about everything.”
But, he didn’t. Instead his defense technique was the opposite and that was to hide everything and be elusive and deceptive about the way things were and about the peculiar particulars of his “religion.” What amazes me is how they assumed that the jury would be so naive (and so really stupid) that they would not see through their deception. Some friends of mine, listening to the audio of the trial without knowing anything about this case, hearing Gabriel and Wayne, immediately identified them as a couple of “bs’ers.” Yes, it was that obvious. However, if all the witnesses had been given the go ahead to “let it all hang out,” and keep that openness tactic operative, I think the results would have been drastically different.
— Sam
TWO KINDS OF OPENNESS
“Occasionally” Sam, okay. You never know when. I just do my best so don’t expect much. But one must be ready for it to happen or miss it.
About not sticking to the original feigned style of openness in the trial, allow me to explain how that worked (didn’t work). There are basically two reasons for openness as you discussed them. One is openness for openness sake. The other is openness for sinister reasons. Since Wayne’s god is not open except for machiavellian reasons, so would Wayne be “open” in that same way. But our man be open for its own sake, no. Sorry. Not going to happen. Not an option. Forget it. If you think that was something he would consider, you don’t know the man. It’s the last thing he would be caught doing.
Consider it for a moment, openness and what it would mean? What it would cost. Things such as truth for instance, and reality. He would have to admit before the court that it was sex, “just as the others (he said) had done who were thrown out of the church.”
He was open about that point back when he calculated that his neck was not on the line. He was more open about it when it served his purpose to be open so as not to appear sneaky with his hanky panky. It had to be open then or he would have lost every honest soul in his group. But to say just that much in court, it would be tantamount to confessing to being an idiot. It would be confess to having an idiot god who soon had to change its mind.
Can you really see our man being that open? If you can, if you think he just made a simple miscalculation which is causing him his present condition, then you do not know this man. He would rather suffer with tubes than confess what he did in open court.
No, not now. Far better not to be open at this point and appear the martyr. The holy sufferer for religion’s sake. This way you promulgate the game and reap the sad but adoring, sympathetic yet admiring looks of those whose minds (and lives) you have ruined.
I keep hearing “the severity of the sentence” in these posts but I believe Judge Baca had a reason for giving him that sentence, it wasn’t something he just pulled out of his rear end. There was a reason for it!
Mark – not sure if you received my “tweet” but my cousins (Mike Piaskowski) book release party is Friday. I would like to send you a copy if you’ll accept. Please let me know. -Diane
Now this was a guy who was wrongly tried and convicted along with 5 other men for a murder he had NOTHING to do with. After 5 1/2 years in prison, he was freed!
SELECTIVE WITH CAUSE AND EFFECT
How many know that Wayne and Strong City are selective with their use of what they call “Cause and Effect”?
If you came to them with a sad story of mistreatment at the hand of a cruel judge and evil state, how many know what they would do with you? As quick as an inmate in an asylum who has prepared his own patties for the occasion, through the bars they will hit you with it–cause and effect.
On the other hand, during one of his whines, in commiseration with him, how many think they reverently breath that term to Wayne Bent? “Well, daddy, pardon me but remember now, the reason for all this is not what it looks like; no one is doing anything to you at all. Just let the fact that it’s all according to cause and effect comfort you. As soon as you accept the truth, the truth shall set you free Now tell us again, who is dad, who is doing this to himself?“
Sorry, not going to happen. This shows us really how much they believe in cause and effect. They don’t believe in it at all. Not for Wayne Bent.
If this is what you think they do, if you think they bring that to him to explain how he did it to himself, you may have been to Strong City but you have no idea what goes on there. You have no clue of their usage of cause and effect. It only works on everybody else. Not on him. Suddenly you discover whose weapon it is—his, not theirs.
When it comes to the object of their fondest affections, the inerrant one, cause and effect can go take a flying leap. He is the victim of those evil molesters trying to feed him who keep him locked up for no good reason, mistried him and won’t let him go home, though they should.
For him, Strong City stands cause and effect on its head, upside down and shakes the daylights out of it. They suddenly do gymnastics with it until they have it just backwards. So much for their believe in the “foundation of heaven’s government”.
Goodd point Diane,
When you understand cause and effect, you will know that it wasn’t due to a cruel judge who is mistreating you and wants to see you eating those awful vegetarian meals, but God who has caused it for you. If Wayne only believed in cause and effect, instead of whining about his treatment (mistreatment), he would be praising God for it all. But no, he doesn’t believe in anything like that. Not even close. YOu would think that after some time, the idea would occur to him. If it is a powerful as he has preached it lo all these years, it would set him free–just what he wants. And if he is reading this, what a blessing it would be to him for we know his closest associates will not share it with him. If he wants to learn it, he will have to take it from us.
David – I believe Wayne does know about cause & effect. He said himself he knew it was wrong,(before he did it) he knew he could get into trouble and yet he still went ahead with it. And why? Because he felt God had left him! So if you ask me, he knew full well. Maybe he expected a slap on the hand for his actions and didn’t expect the sentence he received.
I think this whole hunger strike stuff is a bunch of bunk, just as Esther’s was. I still think it’s so strange how “Father” told her at the last minute that she needed to start eating, hell, a few more days and that would have been the end of her. I’m not buying it. If the LORites think that all the scathing letter writing and hunger strikes are going to free him, then let them. They are putting all this stuff out there, they obviously want the attention and they obviously want people to talk about them. I feel in my heart that those from the LOR get off on they’re holier than thou-ness. Us “fallen humanity that tend to be extremely dense when it comes to spiritual truths”, special thanks to Gabriel for that one.
And to Esther, “I wouldn’t normally lower myself to address so much sewage and the pit that it is coming from but over the past few days I have felt such a pain rising up in my heart that I have to speak”. Over the months many of you have blundered along, sometimes throwing mud, other times throwing what you intended to be real spears. Lately I have wondered when it was that you forgot that real people were on the other end of the darts you throw? All I can say is right back at ya babe!
Sorry, I was going to post this last night but got called away for a Search and Rescue mission. Quickly found the person but had to get a little sleep this morning.
David, though he might appear the martyr in his followers eyes at the moment, one day he will meet the Creator face to face. That’s one place where lies and beating around the bush just won’t work, God already knows! He’s known all of us from before we were conceived and he’s offered us a gift that the followers of SC have given away to follow their messiah on earth. What a sad day in Heaven that will be when our Lord, says:
Matthew 7:23 “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
One more thing I’d like to mention about the involvement of sex in the “healing sessions” and in the tearing apart of families by destroying marriages (and then I’ll be quiet on the subject). It doesn’t have to be that way. Young kids don’t have to have sex to be cool and people can remain faithful to their spouse. Of course it’s not easy, and many of us have strayed at some point in our lives. Some, through no fault of their own, have been abandoned by their spouses after starting out with a beautiful relationship. Thankfully, if we fall, God picks us up, we are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean.
But, there are many people who NEVER stray, have one night stands or become adulterers. My parents have been married 58 years, tough years in so many ways, but never once did the thought cross their mind that someone else might make them happier. They are growing old together, they’re living their final days with the love of their youth. How wonderful for them and for so many like them. And what a wonderful lesson for my husband and I who will celebrate 31 years this year. We aren’t out looking for someone else, someone without gray hair and smooth skin without wrinkles, we don’t believe that way. We’ve also taught and pray for our children that if they vow to love and honor someone all the days of their lives, that they too will keep their promise. Marriage is a commitment, a vow made before God and no matter how tough it gets we must try to honor that vow. It is difficult and at times seems impossible but when God is walking with you it can be done.
The broken marriages to me are a horrible legacy of SC. Marriage is hard enough, you don’t need others telling you that marriage is no longer needed (except to him). Anon, as the teacher/spiritual leader of the members of LOR and a person knowledgeable of scripture, he should have told those women who came to him for healing to turn to God in prayer – NOT to turn to him for “healing” of any nature. Can you imagine the devastation it would cause if every Priest, Pastor or Preacher in the world did the same with their flock? It would be like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Diane, I’m so happy your cousin was freed and look forward to seeing the book in the stores around here before too long. I definitely agree with you about the Judge’s sentence. If you compare it to other people in similar situations it does seem unfair but the Judge had a right and a duty to consider aggravating circumstances and I think that’s just what he did. I also believe the reason WB has not been released on bond while on appeal is because of those same circumstances. And I’m with you on the “right back at ya babe!”
“By their fruits you shall know them!” Such a simple phrase! But it’s easy to look back over the years of WB’s writing that was unwisely posted (or wisely if you believe God has a hand in this “problem” of Bent’s) and see the bitter, rotting fruit that his teaching has left for his followers to clean up.
David said:
Amazing isn’t it David, that Wayne as Michael was able to do over and over again what no other man has ever been able to do, consummate without having any sexual thoughts. This really is quite a miracle. Now I do question why he felt it necessary to consummate with some of those ladies more than once? In Wayne’s own words he admitted that married couples, which he felt he was, consummate more than once. Remember that classic scene from the video? I guess those women needed extra special healing.
“Healing with a hard-on”
Keep it classy, David.
You know, I was just thinking…..Bent may be on to something. Maybe all the guys that sit in the taverns and complain about not getting any from their wives could learn something from him. Maybe Bent has a way with “it”.
Personally? I find it all nauseating. There’s really no information here to be had anymore. It’s all about Wayne Bent’s sex life, and now we’re focusing in on the actual acts. I don’t really care for that sort of “journalism”. I don’t want to spend hours thinking about how Wayne does “it”. JMHO
Hey Honey, Hand me the remote. Let’s see what’s on Beyond90Seconds.com channel right now…. Click…
OMG, Maybe if I squink my eyes and turn my head sideways… David, this is getting rather
“R” rated. Where ya going with this vein of discussion? Pretty rounchy, even by my standards.
Stephanie,
None of us made this what it is except Wayne Bent. Sam refers to it as his “Sexual Ministry,” and that is correct. Wayne wrote pages and pages of documentation about these consummations and why they were necessary. Then his brides wrote even more and more pages about how wonderful this man was with his healing powers through these special consummations. It was all published in The Vision and other books on the Strong City website. These people were quite proud of what they had done. It all was created from and by Wayne Bent.
Why is that relevant now? Because Wayne’s whole fast, he claims, is based on him not being able to tell his story at the trial. The whole Defense strategy at the trial was a lie. They denied everything that they had ever done and how and why any of it happened. And now Wayne is basing his fast on another lie when it is basically to get time with his family and better food.
Yes…I’ve just removed Mr. Mead’s last comment. I’m on a break right now, w/o the luxury of much time to read all that’s new…but that post jumps out as inappropriate.
Some have suggested here, and in e-mails, that these latest Bent threads have run their course. Perhaps they have…
I know this is last week news but I just read it today. and it’s this kind of nonsense that cracks me up.
“Bent’s son Jeffrey testified that at least seven people from Our Lord of Righteousness Church, which Bent leads, would be available in rotating shifts to come to the prison to prepare meals. He said they would be willing to submit to searches and background checks.”
Seriously, who do these people think they are?? Sure come on in, bring the whole cult with you! Go right on in the kitchen there and make poor Wayne some food.
Do they not realize how stupid they are even asking for that privilege??
Yes Diane that was what is really at the heart of what the Fast is about. Wayne wants a combination of his own special food, prepared by his special people and then shared time with his loved ones while he eats the food. His testimony about this, on the Strong City site video clearly details exactly what his demands are, and it does not seem trial related at all. A week has gone by now and I do wonder what stage the Fast remains.
Mark, I am sure we can all avoid any topics that go beyond the limits of good taste.
Jan
Sorry for that last one folks. I knew better, and I tried, but I just couldn’t help it.
Here is a concept to consider. You know it could save the tax payers some dollars if the State of New Mexico would turn Strong City into a prison complex to keep all the Bentites at bay. Take away their internet, phones and feed them State issued veggie patties. No trips to Walmart either. New Mexico is famous for building prisons that are designed for specific crimes. Put all the Cults in one place. The prison is already built. They are out in the middle of no-where like other prisons. I mean, after all the whole camp approved of the naughtiness going on there, and they should all partake of their Master’s outcome. Why should they escape the long arm of the law and only Wayne suffer. I mean they are all for one, and one for all. Put a few guards around the place, deliver some supplies, let them grow their gardens, and let them have their messiah back. Except I would also ship off the other Cult Leaders and Cultish believers from New Mexico there as well. Let them hash that all out between them. And then send in the cameras, Reality TV at it’s finest. It will pay for itself.
Can everyone not be so critical? Stephanie, I agree with you!
Wayne Bent has written he has a fragile immune system. He has been living on a vegan diet for many many years now. The prison food is intolerable to his system.
Is there still freedom of religion in the USA?
Former LOR member, Have you been to Strong City, it is not like a prison at all. I think all the near by ranches would object to a prison being built on the Strong City property.
I honestly do not think there is anyone that would not agree that if Wayne truly needs a special vegetarian diet that he should be able to get one even if he is incarcerated. His family and friends should work diligently to try and achieve this. I cannot believe though that this fast is the best possible means to that end. As Wayne also seemed to be hung up on the spending time with loved ones, and was that too much to ask for? Seriously, does he still not understand that he is in prison and one does not have the same privileges as on the outside world. I am sure all prisoners would like more time with loved ones.
But no question, the matter of the special diet concern, is an issue. Not something to fast about, in my opinion but a viable concern.
I was only kidding, sort of. I have seen the pictures of the place on the internet, as we all have. That bluff behind it is a natural wall of protection, plus I believe that there was recently built in Clayton a new prison complex. I believe that there are cattle ranches all around it as well. And I have seen some of the comments the local neighbors has said on other websites and what they think of Strong City. The local consencious for the place has changed since National Geographic came to town. And I believe that the minds of those at Strong City are locked up tighter than any prison wall. They appear to have turned into a whole bunch of Wayne Bents. There isn’t an independant thinker left in the whole lot of them. In my opinion that is Prison spelled with a Large “P”.
Davids deleted post did have value in this way, It leads us to ask why the necessity of repeated acts of consumations, which are easily understood by anyone as lustful and lost as we are. But it seems to me that Christ only needed to have one healing session with people, yet at least one of the minor girls wrote about repeated skin to skin healing sessions between her and Wayne. From her writings it is amply demonstrated that her intentions were of a “fleshly” nature. When was this corrected? I’ll bet it was a major factor in the prosecutions abrupt abandonment of the presentation of the diary that was altered with type written dates.
Transcript of Wayne Bent’s Hearing
September 23, 2009, regarding his fast in prison.
Wayne Bent: Since the facts weren’t there for the conviction, my trial was essentially a religious trial. This is my point of view. And it seemed like a religious trial from the kinds of questions that were asked me in the trial that had nothing to do with the charge and so I saw in it that.. uhh…something very wrong happened there. And it wasn’t just a matter of me not getting what I wanted. And so I’m fasting. It’s a matter of deep conviction. I was actually accused and sentenced for life. The way the sentence read, it’s a life sentence for following my religious convictions and this became a great big issue in my mind. And so… is it appropriate to talk about Daniel right now?
Attorney: I think we can get to that in a moment.
Wayne Bent: Ok. And I have carried out methodically and communicated with the prison. I’ve gone public about the exact issues that are involved. And it relates to the story of Daniel where the three friends of Daniel, Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego were asked to bow to an image. Well, that image on the plains of Dura was saying, “I am the true religion. Worship me.” And only three… There were a lot of his brethren that bowed the knee. But they said, “We can’t do that, Nebakanezer, the king. We cannot do that. God will deliver us and if he doesn’t we still can’t bow the knee to that.”
And in my trial I felt there was so many religious implications that we agreed upon would not be brought up. And… but they were brought up and I was not permitted to answer to them. And so there was, it was loaded with religion.
Attorney: If you could explain, “not permitted to answer.”
Wayne Bent: An offering to the image that convicted me on the grounds that it did and in the spirit that it did, I don’t want to bow to the knee of that. So I stated, I could no longer take food from the State, because it represents to me that I’m compromising myself to save myself. I’m going to… A lot of my inmate friends told me to do this, “Just go along and save yourself.” And the same with Shadrack, Meshack and Abednego. “Go along, just bow on the knee a little bit and you’re off the hook. You go back to work.” I couldn’t do it, like they couldn’t do it.
No, I don’t have a death wish. I don’t have a suicide wish. But I cannot bow the knee to this image that demands religious respect above the God that I serve. And I think every man has a conscience that he must follow. And no other man has a right to dominate that conscience. Yes, it could mean death to me, just as it was for Daniel’s three friends.
But all I asked was… I don’t have anything in prison, no friends. I don’t have anything. And my loved ones have been separated from me. That’s all I’ve really lived for is the people I love. So I’ve been sentenced to life in prison for that. And all I asked was, “Give me a little time with meals with my family, where they can bring me some food and I’ll eat.” Since Aramark wasn’t able to keep their commitment to me and provide me with a diet that they said they would, I agreed I’d eat from my family. And I wouldn’t have even started a fast and I could have fellowshipped with them and have a little bit of my life back.
Attorney: What…? Can you describe a little bit about what happened with the Aramark food and guided you?
Wayne Bent: In an institution…. I don’t think it was intentional, but they just can’t do it. They have mass production meals and they forget things on the trays. New people come in. There was one person in Aramark for a… who I think came from the farm. For a couple of months, that person fixed my meals and they were pretty good. I got love from the tray. But when the administration at the prison changed, everything fell apart. I got meat trays. I got half trays. I got trays with hardly any food on the at all. I got… But most of the time, it was just missing protein, like beans would be left off.
If God didn’t miraculously intervene in some way, I would die, yes.
Attorney: All right. You mentioned an earlier time when your sentence started, where you talked about Airmark bringing you food and you said, “Aramark’s got it right.”
Wayne Bent: Yes.
Attorney: What did Aramark do to get it right?
Wayne Bent: Well it was that two month period when one particular individual would fix my tray. And they got the tray right, until the administration changed, and then it didn’t. And the beans were cooked, not half cooked. And I got the amount of beans that the menu said. And that’s the only protein I would get is the beans and if the beans didn’t come, I didn’t get any.
Attorney: Get it right again, to get you a vegan vegetarian meal in accordance with the menu, would you cease your fast?
Wayne Bent: No, because I have gone through all the channels numerous times, even met with the warden about my diet. I was assured what was promised me by the warden would be supplied. And it comes for two days and then it’s just like you never said anything. It’s all back to the same scenario.
Attorney: Now, if they provided you on a daily consistent basis with a vegan vegetarian diet, you would continue your fast?
Wayne Bent: Yes sir.
Attorney: Did you ever file any written grievances?
– No answer –
Judge: Call your next witness.
Jeff Bent is then called to the stand as the last witness.
— End of Transcript —
Note from Jan — I felt like this transcript would be useful in the discussions here and so I took the time to do it today. I will also add it to the StrongCity2.info trial pages. After I had completed the typing, I found it very interesting to read Bent’s words. I noticed too, as someone else mentioned, that Wayne was really primarily protesting prison life. They cut you off from what you were enjoying. It’s sad, but that’s just the prison reality. — Jan
Did anyone read “Healed’s” emails to the Alibi?
They are dated Jan. 22, 2009 – Jan. 30, 2009 and there are 6 emails as well as a few letters within the emails. At the end are also the letters she sent to the DA in June, 2008 and Oct., 2008.
They seem to me to be very different in grammar, spelling, etc. from the ones she wrote prior to those. Seems like she might have had a little help in writing them to sound more adult, but it could just be my forgetful memory. I haven’t had a chance to check them against the ones Sam cached.
There is also an audio of the first part of the Grand Jury. It was given to them by Jeff Bent. It includes the Safe Room interviews. The letters as well as the Grand Jury audio was published by Alibi on April 24, 2009.
I thought the links to both were on the SC site but I can’t seem to find them. I might not have gone back far enough. Or maybe Sam had them. Either way, they are gone now and interesting.
I don’t think I can post links here but If Mark or Sam don’t have them and want them I will be happy to send them.
Jan – You did an excellent job on that transcript. Well done. It is very interesting to read it. I certainly agree with your assessment.
KM – I do have those documents and recordings and I will host them and post links to them here. I had a hard time hearing that saferoom interview recording (and I have very good equipment), but maybe others can make sense out of it. I thought it was amusing reading Healed’s comments about her parent’s toys (how silly her remarks were).
— Sam
“Stephanie,
None of us made this what it is except Wayne Bent. Sam refers to it as his “Sexual Ministry,” and that is correct. Wayne wrote pages and pages of documentation about these consummations and why they were necessary. Then his brides wrote even more and more pages about how wonderful this man was with his healing powers through these special consummations. It was all published in The Vision and other books on the Strong City website. These people were quite proud of what they had done. It all was created from and by Wayne Bent.”
Jan,
I have read every scrap of material out there on the net in regards to WB, SC, and everyone involved. I used to enjoy coming here because there was real news to talk about, but now the emphasis is mainly on WB’s sex life, and every shred, every pov one can possibly make about WB’s sex life and how he does it, how his witnesses do it, etc, has been driven into the ground. Seriously. I think we can talk about the case without going into some of the x-rated crap that keeps being posted here. I was mainly referring to David Mead’s post, which has now been removed.
I think that just about everything regarding WB and his sex life in relationship to his gospel and the one he has interpreted for himself from the bible has literally been covered in every fashion available. Not sure what’s left, but I do not enjoy reading the x-rated crap. I like Mark Horner’s blog because he lets us state our opinions, but at the same time there’s no reason to take advantage of that freedom and start writing out lengthy ….as Johnny put it, “raunchy” posts.
“Davids deleted post did have value in this way,”
lol, okay. Well, maybe I just need to find greener pastures to wander over to for SC news. Because frankly, it’s starting to get yucky up in here. Maybe some folks are comfortable with the continual dissection of Wayne Bent’s sex life. I wonder what is next?
Yes, Stephanie, while the the sexual ministry was a huge part of Wayne’s years since the year 2000 and believing that he was commanded by God to do all of that is what Wayne says is essential for our salvation, I agree with you… it has been covered very well.
But, most recently, Jan posted a transcript which she worked on today from Wayne’s fasting hearing. That is worthy of comment. Also there are other interesting aspects to all of this strange saga. KM brought up the Healed collection of emails pdf file, which Healed sent to the Alibi newspaper.
Here is a link to that pdf, which you can download and read. Right click on this link and choose “Save target as” to start your download.
http://strongcity2.info/posts/healedemails.pdf
I think those two things (fasting transcript and the healed pdf) will give everyone some food for thought.
— Sam
Stephanie, I believe the topic had changed until you brought it back …
What a great post by Jan giving us the actual words of Wayne Bent in his testimony last week. Even in simple things he has a hard time keeping it straight. In one breath he comments on his prison friends, then a few minutes later he says he has no friends there and that is why he wants his loved ones to eat with him? Yes, that is a minor issue but it was rather interesting.
Certainly one thing is clear what he said the fast was about way back the end of August and what it really was about are two different things.
I look forward to your hosting or posting the links to Healed’s emails. I would like to read them. Glad you mentioned that KM.
Again some great discussion here, really!!
Thank you Sam, I see you have already provided me the link. That is great. I agree lots of “other,” things to discuss.
Thanks KM, those safe house interviews are powerful.I was reading something stated about Roman Polansky’s situation and how his victim didn’t want to be apart of prosecuting him at this point. Somebody made an astute statement that went something like this,…”But for good or ill, the justice system doesn’t work on behalf of victims; it works on behalf of justice”… ultimately more people would be harmed by a justice system that allowed offenders to avoid punishment because they were able to for some odd reason than society would be benifited by victims unwilling to prosecute.
I am praying for Michael and hope we will hear an update soon. I know that everyone who loves Michael is praying that he is given the strength he needs. My heart goes out to him and hope that we will hear from him soon. I believe he must be set free soon and returned where he belongs with his people on the land. His sentence is a life sentence and he does not deserve it. People like Roman Polansky who drugged up a young child and proceeded to rape them fled this country and did not face his court date. He was guilty and he knew it so he ran away to another country. Michael on the other hand did not run away because he was telling the truth. He could have but he did not. He remained and faced his accusers. Mr. Polansky will more than likely get a slap on the wrists where Michael will sit in prison for nothing. My love goes out to Michael and all that love him who feel hurt for his suffering.
After reading through Healeds letters my heart sank. It is so sad that her parents drank so often in front of their children. In many states it is illegal to supply alcohol to minor children or host parties with minors in the presence of alcohol.
Transcript note from 9/23
But all I asked was… I don’t have anything in prison, no friends. I don’t have anything. And my loved ones have been separated from me. That’s all I’ve really lived for is the people I love. So I’ve been sentenced to life in prison for that. And all I asked was, “Give me a little time with meals with my family, where they can bring me some food and I’ll eat.” Since Aramark wasn’t able to keep their commitment to me and provide me with a diet that they said they would, I agreed I’d eat from my family. And I wouldn’t have even started a fast and I could have fellowshipped with them and have a little bit of my life back.
These people are seriously misinformed,naive or just plain stupid. BENT- YOUR IN PRISON! NOT AN OLD FOLKS HOME, PRISON! YOUR A PRISONER! You don’t get to have your family come in to prison and make special food for you and you don’t get to sit down at a table with your family and break bread. You don’t get your life back.
I can just imagine the trouble Bent is causing the warden and staff of the prison. I’m sure some of the other inmates are following his lead and requesting similar privileges.
Sam, could you please send me the link to Healeds emails/letters? Thank you!
Jan – great job on the transcript, thank you for doing that. You said it best here: They cut you off from what you were enjoying. It’s sad, but that’s just the prison reality.
Of course, parents have been drinking moderately “in front” of their children for centuries without harm. The apostle Paul taught, “Moderation in all things.” Teaching children by example that an adult can drink without taking it to excess is the best way to make sure that when they are old enough they understand how to put limits on their own behavior. Supplying booze to kids (I don’t think her parents did that) and getting drunk in front of children… I agree, that is wrong. But, it could have been that she merely interpreted her parents’ antics as being a bit more severe than they actually were (we don’t know).
When I read Healed’s letters, her parents lifestyle does seem pretty hectic compared to what she was used to at Strong City. It seemed more like “culture shock” to me than anything else. A blaring television and other people’s music can be quite annoying for anyone who prefers a more reflective atmosphere and different musical and cinematic genre. Sounds like an ipod for her own musical choices would have been an ideal gift for Healed (and a dvd player for some quality movies). But, I certainly agree with her about commercial television (I also find it to be virtually unwatchable). She really seems to have missed out on not being able to enjoy good literature and films. I think she would have enjoyed living at my house, because we respect differing individual preferences and have places to be alone so you can “do your own thing.” I have had similar reactions to what she expressed when I have visited some distant relatives, because drastically contrasting cultures can be quite a shock to your sensibilities.
I wish she could spend some time living on her own as she turns 18. Strongcity is actually similar to her family homelife in that it imposes a style too. It is interesting when you can explore and find your own place in the world. I found my own parents’ lifestyle to be very oppressive and similarly annoying (but, they were way too religious for my preferences and didn’t like rock n’ roll or my hairstyle), so I when left home for university I never returned, except for friendly visits. If she could spend some time doing a bit of exploration she might come away with a very different life perspective.
Diane… you could just scroll back up a couple of posts for that link (you must have missed reading that one), but I will repeat it here for you:
Right click on the link and choose “Save target as” to start your download.
http://strongcity2.info/posts/healedemails.pdf
—– Sam
I believe Healed turned 18 a short while ago. The fact that she didnt move back to Strong City the very first second that she could says alot. I hope she finds happiness in this world, life is short and there are no “do-overs”!
Ron – I hope so too! I have my fingers crossed for her. And my arms, legs eyes, toes…..etc!
Something has to be holding her back because I too thought the minute she turned 18 she would be on her bike back to the ranch.
Sam – I bet you were a handsome hippie!
I guess everyone reads those emails and has a different interpretation. I think Healed was very judgmental against her very loving parents. This couple went into the life of the Lorites when they were so very young. Being married at sixteen is restrictive enough, keeping you from knowing who you really are as an individual let alone being married and part of a very sheltered religious group. These two never had the chance to develop independently and missed out on all the normal wonderful experiences of their youth, like a dance, a party with friends, a concert, and yes of course enjoying a few beers with their peers. These can be wonderful happy experiences for sixteen and seventeen year olds and they had none of this.
I think they are just trying to live a little the life they gave up and missed out on. Certainly sixteen and seventeen year olds are not meant to be experiencing these fun times already as parents. It is supposed to be a carefree time. But Elsa and John still wanted to recapture what they had missed, so even being parents, they reached out and tried to grab a little happiness and fun around them. Since they seem like such good and decent caring people I am sure they meant no harm to their daughters. The culture shock as Sam mentioned is probably more what this is about than anything really harmful that the Sayers were actually doing. I think the letters were more about Healed being angry against her parents for not supporting her laying naked with Wayne Bent. Healed was doing what many young people do, striking back.
To me the Sayers should be celebrated as they kept their marriage together when just about everyone and everything in their world was against them. Says a lot about the very deep love they still have for each other and that can be rare today, when a couple marries that young. Maybe Healed will one day look back at this time and have many regrets regarding her thoughts against these two fine people, that obviously love her. Much of what we think when we are in our teens seems to shake out as we age and we become a little wiser, with life lessons.
Over the years I have met a lot of people who, once they have made up their minds, nothing could ever change it. It becomes a matter of pride. It would embarrass them to admit they are wrong, even when common sense says they are. Just look at those folks that are obsessed with conspiracy theories.
I have found that the people that you don’t need to listen to, are the one’s that are convinced they have all of the answers!
Diane, You are welcome regarding the transcripts. It is always helpful, I think to have these words, at hand to discuss properly.
As for Healed not returning yet … Perhaps she would have if Michael were still living there. I doubt that wild horses could have kept her away! Right now Strong City just does not seem to be what it used to be with Jeff and all the wives living at the gates of the prison, in their own little compound. I am surprised though that Healed is not living there.
Ron, I agree … but I am forever the optimist, regarding people.
Jan
Ruth, many people perceived as enemies of LOR, are only keeping track of this because of their love for all the people that have been involved with LOR through-out its history, and that includes Wayne. Our prayer and purpose is that everybody makes it through OK!
An attempt to becloud the mind of someone is not restricted to chemical means alone. It is very interesting in this case how one mind was able to perceive that something wasn’t quite right, and the other was completely charmed.
Wayne does want to flee and run away to a distant land, where only people who go along with his standards of conduct exist, and he has no interest in facing the results of his court appointment. The difference between the truth and a lie is just a perspective in a land of confusion.
I will have to admit that the old LOR Lifestyle was not that bad. But it does have it’s distractions and fallouts though. Consider all the shunning and the isolation from relatives and old friends, Jewish feast day observances, intense self examinations, fasting when done correctly, and the continuious being under the magnifing glass and close scruntity of your fellow brethren as they have nothing else better to do but examine one another, read posts, surf the WWW, fix the roads, collect drinking water, do laundry, and go down to the common store to get a potatoes and some supplies. They have no hobbies, no recreational hall, no choir practice, the gardens are now unattended, and now no one there to preach to them as Wayne is not there, and now are seen the continuous long faces, tears and sadness. Their joy is gone. Michael Travesser was their whole existance, as they now sit and eat their bread in silence of tears. This is the reality and natural outcome of a visible, living messiah among you. The Bible warns men about doing these things. All messiahs of that sort always crash and burn. The Bible calls it strange fire. That is why Jesus had to go the route His Father instructed Him to go… short life on earth, the cross, resurrection, and going back to Heaven and then sending the Holy Spirit (Something not seen and felt) in His place to comfort us. And then, a real second coming in the sky seen by all, not just seen on a website. By appearance, Strong City does not look very comforted now, and that is sad, because their hope is in a man of flesh sitting in a New Mexico prison. He did have great plans for them,I will admit, but you know how sometimes the best of plans sometimes go screwy when things just don’t come together, or someone does not heed warnings given from above and from among your fellows. This fast is once again about keeping it all together and getting attention. I have never seen my former brethren scrambling around like this before, going solely by the seat of their pants, making things up as they go, where each and every day could bring with it something that could hurl them into the wind again, and we all look and see where and how they will land on the earth, crushed and crumbled, and returning to the earth from which they came. They are dried up leaves being blown around by unpredicable winds of doctrine. What happened to Jeff’s statement, “It’s all in the Bank.” Banks are the tallest buildings in the citys, and God loves to push over towers built by men. Yet the Lord is a Tall Tower, and the Righteous run into It, and they are safe. As for me, my faith is in a Risen Messiah, one who was Faithful and True, and who will never die, because He is the Author and finisher of my faith. As for me and my house. We will serve the Lord. Perhaps there will be some survivers when this is all over. I sure do hope so.
So Healed is in the wrong because she didn’t want to watch her parents partying and getting drunk? Or her sister passing out and vomiting on herself? Seriously?
Wow.
I would be ashamed if my family acted like that Jan. I would not want to be in that house either. I cannot blame the girl for not wanting to live like this.
And, how can we blame Healed for her feelings she demonstrated about her parents? Her parents are the ones who let her grow up in SC, and her parents are the ones who left her there to continue being brain washed. If anyone is to blame here, it’s the parents, for choosing to leave their child there.
This reminds me of Linda Kasabian, who left her daughter Tonya Kasabian at the Spahn ranch for all of those months as she fled to Mexico. When later in life, Tonya began having problems in her teens, Linda blamed it on the Manson family and not herself.
I get a sense that healed is not liked very well here, and that’s fine, but you cannot blame her. She was raised this way, and left to the people in SC to raise her when Elsa and John left her there.
Stephanie – Where is all of this anger coming from? Or are you a different Stephanie than the one from months ago that posted here? I’m sorry.
I have posted on Beyond 90 seconds before. You can look back at older posts.
I’m not angry, I just find some things preposterous. I’m a straight shooter, that’s just how I am. And I find it hard to make concessions for some people who their children. The excuses being made for the Sayers behavior in regards to their children are a little out there. JMHO
*who abuse their children.
Don’t many, in fact most young people today question and often have problems with their parents? Sure Healed’s problems might be different than the norm but at her age it is often normal to not see eye to eye.
So who is right in this and who is wrong? Both! IMO.
How very much the Sayers did love those girls because when they left their church and Strong City, in order to keep their marriage and then were condemned forever in the eyes of God. But they allowed the daughters to stay because they loved them, so they would still be in favor with God. That had to be so difficult. And look at what happened … all of this turmoil because Wayne Bent took advantage of the situation. Still John and Elsa have shown only the greatest love for their girls.
I am not exactly sure what one would have expected them to do. And I seriously doubt all of what Healed wrote was any where near as bad as she tried to make it sound. She was lashing out. She was angry because her Michael was away from her. No different that when any parents are seen as trying to keep a young girl away from her boyfriend. Maybe some day this family can find their way back to each other.
And I don’t think anyone here dislikes Healed. I doubt many of us understand this unusual love she has for Michael, but that does not mean we dislike or condemn her. We all just hope she wakes up and moves on with her life in a full rich way, and puts Strong City in her past. And finds a real man, her own age to love!
Of course Healed was angry and lashing out. She didn’t want to leave her home. Let’s not forget that the Sayer’s left Healed there, unprotected against Wayne Bent and his plans for her. Healed truly is the victim here.
She looked to Wayne Bent as a lover and a father figure, because her father left her unprotected.
I work with at risk children every day, and do you know that the majority of these children have an absent father? Have had a father walk away from them or even return at some point in their lives? Being abandoned as a child creates some serious emotional damage.
I’m sorry, but I cannot get behind rooting for the Sayer parents. They have allowed this to happen to their daughters, but no one feels they should be responsible for this mess because they were in this cult. Let’s also not forget, that the Sayers packed it up and moved away long before their daughters were molested, and, Healed notified her mother of Wayne Bent’s plans to lay skin to skin. There was warning, there were red flags everywhere. As Elsa said she knew that there were posts about this.
I cannot believe that as adults, we would blame Healed for being angry. She’s 18 now, but when she was a child she was left behind to fend for herself. Her anger is valid and the emotional damage is real.
The Sayers, instead of holding parties and getting drunk around their daughters, should have been holding counseling sessions and helping to pull their lives together in a more positive way. IMO
I really do hope that Healed has found a life for herself. I hope she goes in a good direction too. Heaven knows she has not had good examples in front of her for the majority of her life.
From my understanding when the Sayers left, Healed and Elsa wanted to stay behind. I’m sure they had no idea that Bent would do what he did to them because when they got wind of it, they were there to pick them up. Unfortunately, they have grown up there and were taught outside the gates it was a big bad world. I don’t believe that the Sayers allowed this to happen to them.
Stephanie said:
“The Sayers, instead of holding parties and getting drunk around their daughters, should have been holding counseling sessions and helping to pull their lives together in a more positive way. IMO”
I agree that would have been the ideal way to handle the situation and I applaud anyone that has left the kind of situation the Sayers left and has done just that. I think though that just because they left SC and LOR doesn’t neccessarily mean that the ramifications of that lifestyle are just done the minute they walk or drive out of the gates. There is still fall out to deal with. They left a life of one extreme and are now celebrating their freedom, if you will, by going to the other extreme. It might take them awhile to find the balance in life.
I also agree with Hope that the Sayers showed how much they loved their girls by allowing them to stay at SC so they wouldn’t lose their salvation. It may look crazy to those of us that are looking at this from a distance but I get the feeling that the Sayers still aren’t 100% convinced that their salvation isn’t at SC and with the LOR.
I don’t envy the path they have to walk but I’m so glad they’ve made the first steps and I believe the rest of it will fall into place in time.
As for Healed I agree with Jan when she said “Much of what we think when we are in our teens seems to shake out as we age and we become a little wiser, with life lessons.”
imagine no faith or confidence in sociaty’s pillars and institutions, no hope in a future to propel you on to some worthwhile endeavour and a colosal struggle within your heart about whether the ones that you have spent some of the most rewarding moments of your life with and placed the uttmost confidence in are really unworthy of your continued fellowship. These are just a few of the things these parents had to deal with and may have felt the need to self medicate about. They are not looking for some immature thrill that may have escaped them. These folks are traumatized just like any that came out of LOR and you can bet that if there was any way the leaders in LOR could add to that trauma they did.
Awesome post Pepper, and welcome.
I think you have zeroed in on the heart of this, John and Elsa are still living betwixt and between the life of the LOR and the outside world. Married so very young and with John’s LOR background they immediately went into this very sheltered existence. The way these LOR people 100% accept all of the doctrines and beliefs so completely I have to think that it would not be easy for the Sayers to give all this up. They did realize they had enough love for each other that they wanted to remain married. So they left their girls with the church I honestly feel they still believed in, albeit for the desolation of their own marriage vows. Leaving does not mean that all the church beliefs suddenly left them. Look at John’s own very forgiving testimony on the stand. I dare say very few fathers would have that kind of forgiveness for a man that had done that to his daughters. All of this is so very complicated and I do not think any of us can judge these people, not John, not Elsa and not Healed.
Whisperwind hit the nail on the head. Leaving the LOR is very tramatic. I went though hell for 3 years adjusting to the outside world. I dealt with emotions, denile, doubt, fear, and isolation. I self medicated with my Barbershop Harmony music and singing Karaoke and believe me it did help me a lot. I did not trust churchs, government, and I still do not have a church home where I feel well and healed. It is hard to find people on the outside of cults who understand cult withdrawal. That’s why I wrote my book to help others such as myself. It is tough to undertake this alone. Interesting most of the posts I read on here about people who comment on the Sayers really do not know them at all, and seriously has not walked in their shoes. Their whole life was their Family, and their Family was the LOR and that for much of their life. They knew really no other life aside from their early years as children traveling from drill rig to drill rig and farming. Jan, you have good insight, but you really do not know this young Sayer family like some of us do, and you really do not know their parents and their struggles, aside from stories you heard and gleaned. I know Vern and Shirley Sayer very well. Everybody has issues, but these were mighty fine people who coped with their lives very privately, and it is so sad that their lives are an open book now for all to form their opinions about. I doubt if over half of you would have had the ability to handle these matters with as much grace, patience, and love as this family has. I am proud to call all of them my friends, even though I am shunned by some of them today. They are loved, accepted and prayed for at my table.
You know, I don’t really care that Elsa and John drink to cope with their problems, and I can understand that, but to supply a minor with alcohol, leave your sex toys out in the open for your children to find, allow your minor children to drink… well, that’s a whole new ball game there. It’s illegal to contribute to the deliquency of a minor, and I tend to find it shocking that some are OK with that.
I think alot of my points in my last post were good, and have been skirted around carefully.
Healed was abandoned, abandoned. Left behind to cope with a dirty old man who wanted to get her into his grip. Healed told her mother that she had intentions on laying with WB. Her mother did not go get her daughter that day. Let’s think about when Elsa did finally go get her.
After healed was molested. After it was too late.
Please, where was Elsa at when WB had his head laying between her daughter’s breasts?
Nevermind. Because personally, the excuses that people continue to make for this is nauseating.
I do not see where these girls were loved. They were left behind to fend for themselves against an old man who was lusting after them every day. The grandparents? Seriously? They’re not good examples either. Not when you look the other way and refuse to protect your grandchildren from molestation.
See, everyone is ready to roast WB on a stick for what he has done, but no one wants to address the fact that the parents are responsible too.
I’m done talking about this issue, before I’m accused of being mean and heartless. I feel really sorry for these girls, because they have a past with SC to overcome, and now their absent parents who are lost somewhere in the 12 pack of booze.
I apologize that became lengthy. Really lengthy posts tend to annoy me.
Johnny, I really feel for you. How difficult it has obviously been, and is still being, for you and your friends caught up in all this. How sad that so many people can all be trying their best to do the right thing as they see it and yet there is so much trouble and pain. Above all, how difficult it is for us on the outside to empathise with something so far outside our experience, and how easy to apportion blame.
Wasn’t it mainly thanks to John and Elsa making a courageous stand to protect their daughters that the whole thing came to court at all? Also I had the distinct impression that Healed would have flatly refused to accompany her parents when they left.
I’m going to buy your book.
My very best wishes to you and all your friends in and out of LOR
Stephanie, I do see your point. I’m not okay with most of the things that went on or are still going on. And of course John and Elsa made mistakes. Most parents do, just not to that extent. But it’s not going to change overnight and not without some serious help.
Most of the adults looked the other way. While not completely their fault, having been indoctrinated by Bent, you would think that someone would say something.
Finally someone, several people, did say something and not just once but several times before the investigation got rolling. The whole situation is incredibly sad. The two sisters are not the only children affected by this, remember the young boy and Willow? And I’m sure there are others we don’t know about.
CYFD erred by not providing the girls with their own advocate as well as not investigating the entirety of SC. WB is at the heart of the problem but he’s not the only problem.
Fish rots from the head down and this group has had years to rot. There’s no telling how many people were affected over the years and sadly it’s not going to go away quickly.
I’m open to suggestions on anyway we could help at this point,
but, I’m at a loss on who to approach who would really take the time to help. What can the average person outside of SC do?
Posters, PLEASE, re READ Healds letters to “Alibi”. Then post what was written..
No where does Healed state that sex toys were out in the open, matter of fact she, stated she went into her mothers
(PRIVATE) BEDROOM in search of something when she ran across something she calls a “sex toy” (her words)
was that it was something meant for ones self pleasure.
But this is HEALDS interpretation and who knows what her naive mind thought up.
Hopefully, she’s still a virgin,and has zero experience when it comes to sex.
I’m not trying to make fun of her, actually I’d be proud to have a daughter so deeply committed
on remaining pure and clean, unblemished.
Could this “sex toy” simply have been a vibrator?
I have several of these and are only used to help treat my neck and back.
And perhaps these “toys” that could be interpreted by naive mind as something kinky.
Had she described a rubber male part, then we’re talking a whole different ball game, excuse the pun, but I just couldn’t help it, like David M admitted!
She also wrote of her fathers magazines that “porn”
the poor girl uses the word hate way and often. too freely. The spirit of WB evidently here.
Here’s a few lines from the emails she’d written to the DA, judge and few others.
“I have known about my parents’ pornography, but ***I haven’t really seen much of it***.
I haven’t wanted to see it either”.
I have seen a few magazines in their house that are very pornographic in nature,
***but of course I have not looked at them***. WOW! read again!
She continues….
“One day when I was searching for something in my parents’ bedroom, I came across some sex toys used for
masturbation. I had known my dad was into pornography, but I didn’t know my mom was too.
First I’d like to ask this girl, just how did she know this belongs to her mom and not her dad?
And how does she know those “few magazines” are very pornographic IN NATURE, but of course I
have not looked at them.” Read that again!
I’d like to ask again,… “IF you have NOT looked at them then how do you know their contents being
pornographic in nature?” and just what do you call “Porno in nature?”
Seems to me, a naked old man on top of a naked child is MORE than pornographic, if not down right filthy-nasty!
Lets get real here! Don’t tell me this “man” didn’t get a “rise” out of the occasion!
And perhaps those magazines are nothing more than “The National Geographic magazines,
Maybe the one with those brown skinned villagers lined up for photo shoot, all smiling while touting those “modesty gourds.” covering their consummation tools.
And come to think of it, my partners medical books is pornographic in nature as well.
I’m sorry here folks, But I only saw a very beautiful and very loving mother and a very nervous and fidgeting/stammering father on the witness stand.
Her mother is just heartsick and very broken. Yes she screwed up big time by allowing her daughters to take part of the LOR
and turned them over to family living there. But doesn’t everyone trust “grandma” is best place ever?!
Lets not pick this young couple apart and make all sorts judgment calls,
as we’ve never walked a minute in their shoes AND have only seen the smallest “snippets” into their lives.
Is unfair to judge them by what little info given here on open forums. GOSH!
Just who is the one in prison here? Not the Sayers!
They are just “acting out” in same manner they were raised.
And yes, they are not living a life style most of us here would do and most telling is their beer drinking
And too often evening parties and loads of noise.
That poor girl just isn’t used to this lifestyle and misses the quietness she felt while living on LOR lands.
I’d love for her to come stay in our home, attend a local college and a good young group worship team.
But I seriously doubt she’d ever take our offer up to her, but at least she won’t be able to say no one offered a way out!
There’s so much to this story and perhaps soon, we’ll hear what the tube feeding played out.
There’s a movie coming out tomorrow, Friday, wondering if anyone else thought of the LORites.
OK, I admit, I’ve got a mean side, but as David Mead admitted! “I just couldn’t help myself”!
Jeri,
Wow! I had a lot of the same thoughts you did about what Healed thought she saw and what she actually saw. I also know that the LOR people call a lot of things pornographic that most of us wouldn’t consider porn.
I can completely understand that they whole lifestyle change was a shock, culture shock like Sam said, and very hard to adjust to. The other problem is she was angry about having to be in that situation and didn’t want to adjust and that makes adjusting almost impossible.
I’m not excusing the parents or coming against Healed. I’m just saying that there is A LOT more to this situation than meets the eye and I don’t think its fair to judge any of them on the little info we do have.
By the way, are you talking about The Invention of Lying?
KM,It’s people like you that Wayne’s disciples around the world should be seeking to imatate if they are looking for a leader. Thank you and everybody else here for your benificent spirit. It is my humble opinion that the best thing you can do is to maintain an avenue of education and information about this group so all that may be interested, can see many sides of the situation. Your contributions are more valuable then you know.
I certainly agree with Pepper. There is just no way to judge the Sayers harshly (whom I have never met) without misjudging them. When we consider where they came from, (LOR) which you can’t really, without having been there, you can only imagine it to the best of your ability, you realize that even now, as in his court testimony, he still considers Wayne one of his best friends (or something to that effect). Amazing.
I agree with Johnny’s assessment of the Sayers as well. He knows the pit from which they came. I sometimes wonder if he is totally free from it yet , given his oft mentioned esteem of Wayne. It doesn’t happen over night.
And Jeri, you seem to have a really good grasp of this family’s situation, and a really good grasp on grace as well, and where and when o apply it. With what you have written, you certainly won my heart. Thanks so much for your kind thoughts.
And to the others here discussing sex toys found in a couple’s bedroom, and supposed porn that you have not seen, what’s all this talk about it? Where should these things be kept, if not in the bedroom? When between a married couple, are we to consider this some sort of sin? This is not right.
Healed was immature in writing about it as she did, for others to read, but we are not, or should not be so immature as to talk about it too. As if to denigrate her parents and show their mistakes. All that the Sayers have been reported to do here is a family matter, of which we should not feel free to be examining and disparaging. For instance, they have not made it intentionally public, nor informed us that not accepting it, we will all be damned. If they had done that, if they had intended it as vulgarity that we should accept, then we would be free to comment on it and put it in its true light. They have not done this. We know who has, and we treat him with more respect than we do the Sayers. We protect him when it is the Sayer family who actually deserve that protection. Strange.
Very interesting take by several of you on Healed’s emails. It seems that she might have been wondering off where she did not belong and making judgements based on things that she was not meant to see. So please spare me some of the attacks on these parents, or any parents because they should have privacy from children. There might even be a few parents who post here that would not want their offspring knowing some parts of their lives either.
I am sure you Johnny have maybe the best insight here however it would seem that several of the posters have grasped much of what has been going on and can also post educated guesses, on this family. Just about all the posts in the last day or two, except maybe one or two seem right on.
And once again I want to reiterate how special John and Elsa are in dealing with what must have been a nightmarish situation. They are a remarkable couple.
It seems to me, that one of the saddest things about cults is the way that some of our best characteristics as human beings seem to help ensnare us in them. I mean for example, our capacity for love and loyalty. What powerful forces for good they can be, and how much they can help us to achieve together.
Nothing brings a group more tightly together than a sense that it’s just then against “the world”, and the damaged but charismatic cult leader is good at exploiting this “them and us” feeling to bind the group more tightly to him. It also serves to more easily alienate those who try to stand up to him – as has been pointed out by people here with painful direct experience of this, who are then left bereft, and missing the closeness of the group which had formerly been such a comfort.
I’m wondering if this latest fast was brought on by Wayne’s fear of losing control of the group. At least if they were busy taking it in turn to prepare meals for him, he would still have been the centre of their attention.
I hope Johnny will make sure we know when his book is published. Like KM, I wish there was some way to help, but at least I can buy a couple of copies from different suppliers, and donate one to a library.
WHAT BRINGS THINGS ON
Bilby wonders:
“I’m wondering if this latest fast was brought on by Wayne’s fear of losing control of the group. At least if they were busy taking it in turn to prepare meals for him, he would still have been the centre of their attention.”
What brings things on in a cult is the last thing is done and gone. That’s all it takes. No matter what it is, something exciting must always be just ahead.
The second coming for instance, as soon as it fails you need to be on to the next thing. Why this, because, you are the messiah. As such, you can’t just be setting there in your cell doing nothing. Something has to be about to happen. The troops need to be anticipating it, something big. And as messiah, you are supposed to be the one causing it. You let it be known what it is, and soon, everybody is expecting it. Any tidbit of information passes around like wildfire. Not a day goes by but everybody knows the latest, no matter where they are.
If you were on the outside, you have plenty of events to be generated. But inside, you can’t have another second coming from prison. Separated from the others, if it happened, you wouldn’t know for sure, couldn’t tell if you left, and they stayed, or visa versa. If you smoked, you could light up another cigarette while watching TV. Then you have something to look forward to. But that does not keep the troops busy getting ready for the next big event.
Better to have another fast. Something like that is about all you can officiate over from the inside. That way you get everybody’s attention. The focus is on you again, which is the whole point. And then when the fast is over, if you are still inside, you have plenty of time to plan what comes next.
Thanks David, that makes a lot of sense. I also wondered whether Wayne was a bit put out at Esther being the centre of attention for a couple of weeks earlier in the year. He (rather lamely?) went on a fast as well “Here I stand with her”, but did not otherwise seem to publicly acknowledge her efforts on his behalf? Maybe by now she gets it. It’s not about her, it’s about Wayne. He certainly made it clear that noone was to join him in the current fast.
I have another theory about why Wayne did this. I think that he actually is ready to end it all and he wants to commit suicide to avoid the spectacle of his little band of followers and the rest of the world seeing him descend into full blown dementia.
It is my theory that Wayne is starting to realize (because he is now having symptoms that are very apparent to others and to himself, especially) that he is afflicted with either Alzheimer’s or some other variation of a senile dementia. I think it actually first started in, or just prior to, the year 2000 when he became “The Messiah” sitting in his living room easy chair. But the dementia at that stage allowed him to retain his communicative skills while launching into a bizarre world of a complicated fantasy, which was to him for most of the time very real and to others who had respected him for years, very credible. In much of his writings he shows that on occasion he did have episodes of being shocked back into true reality (sanity), when he knew that what he was doing (violating the very laws of God which he had taught for years) was wrong and nonsensical. But, each time that happened, he would return to those comfortable mental places where those suffering from dementia seek refuge (for most patients with these symptoms, modern drugs have worked miracles to keep them from returning to fantasy reasoning and acting out what they are experiencing in their heads).
And Wayne’s new glimpse of the actuality that he is now suffering from an ever worsening state of dementia might have been assisted by his own declaration (speaking as the archangel Michael) that Wayne’s mission as Messiah would only last for seven years ending in 2007):
That seven year time limit became a limit for him to have an explanation he could rely onn for his worsening state of mental confusion and loss of appropriate reason.
I have noticed a steady decline in Wayne’s faculties in his writings and in his audio. That weeping crying piece message to his sister, was very revealing, because this is a man who taught that you had to leave your family behind (forsake them) and here he was blubbering the way I have seen those suffering from dementia (and those who had a few too many beers) do. Other communications recently have shown signs of a steady decline (such as those trips down memory lane about his two homosexual episodes as child). And his latest fast testimony video (view it and read the transcript) is really a great example of how he has lost his directional mental senses (disjointed, inconsistent in message and replete with non-sequiturs).
I have been exposed to a few situations of people undergoing the steady decline of what is sometimes diagnosed as Alzheimer’s. It doesn’t happen immediately, but is a slow process and really can take ten years or more for some. Often you can go back and observe that key point (like Wayne becoming the Messiah in his living room) when they started to go wacky, but at that time they got away with a lot of bizarre behavior and do so for years because of their history of competence and retention of skills learned over a lifetime.
But, there comes a time when they come to the self realization that they are indeed demented. It’s depressing and shocking to them. Often they opt for suicide in their quasi-lucid moments, so that they will not just be reduced to a vegetable state in front of their loved ones and associates. I think that is what Wayne is doing (and he is using a proven, religiously couched, method which lets him go out in a blaze of sanctimonious glory).
— Sam
Sam wrote:
”I have another theory about why Wayne did this. I think that he actually is ready to end it all and he wants to commit suicide to avoid the spectacle of his little band of followers and the rest of the world seeing him descend into full blown dementia.”
“Full blown dementia?” I am not qualified to know if Sam is correct or not. My observation is simply that the excitement must be maintained by whatever means possible and fasting is about the only semblance of control left to our man by which to generate it.
”It is my theory that Wayne is starting to realize (because he is now having symptoms that are very apparent to others and to himself, especially) that he is afflicted with either Alzheimer’s or some other variation of a senile dementia.”
When I and half the church separated from Wayne, I took him aside and told him that something terrible had happened to us, and I took his head in my hands and said, “here is where it happened.” Meaning in his mind. I made him understand that my mind had not changed. I was still loyal to him, but especially to the church. That was the last time I ever saw him and it was some seven years before we communicated briefly again. His comment then was to announce that now, separated as we would be, it would soon become obvious which one of us was crazy. As we departed, I accepted that statement, and so it has come to pass.
If I am correct, it is due to the voice that he claims to hear that he exhibits the dementia to which Sam refers, which I simply call foolish behavior. It seems to me that following the instructions from his “voice”, the state of his brain health would not matter much one way or the other. Healthy mind or not, he is determined to follow the instructions from his voice. It was his voice that brought him to trial.
From what he has said about it, he knows as much as we do that the voice tells him to do things he would not normally do. “Wrong things” such as the sexual etc. etc., but because he says his voice is God’s voice to him, he proceeds to do whatever it tells him to.
He has convinced his followers too, that to accept the voice as from God is their salvation and condemned us for not accepting it. This, for many years already and so of sound mine or not, there is no going back now. He has thereby locked himself into a prison more difficult to get out of than the one with bars he is in.
If he considered turning back now, it would be tantamount to confessing to dementia all along. How many think he is about to make some such an admission? I think we all know his mind well enough to know the answer to this question.
This being the case, Sam may still be correct about the physical dementia, but I don’t think it would matter much. Even so, dementia or not, for him, the outcome is fixed, he is not changing course. And also for those who stubbornly intend to stay loyal to him (to the voice he hears).
As for ending his life by starvation in order to avoid the spectacle of his dementia, I think he has calculated that they will not allow that. I think he wants to live out his life in his sexual candy store if he can.
There is one thing that would attract him to suicide—if he thought for a moment his followers were persuaded by something I wrote.
Excellent thoughts on this Sam. I agree! Little bit by little bit that man has has been showing signs of dementia for quite awhile. No reason for me to rewrite what Sam said as it was all very well stated.
Jan
Bilby,
Please save your vain imaginations for something more worth you time and energies.
Don’t assume that you know what we feel and think. All of you are always wrong.
Just go do something more worthwhile. Are we really so important as to waste hours of your day imagining what we might think or feel or what every single one of our motives are?
Yes, this is a rebuke. I find you all childish and supremely immature. If I may be really blunt, “Get a life.”
Leave our motives, thoughts and feelings to those of us who actually know what is going on.
Somebody wants some more attention!
I’m sorry Esther, but I do have a handle on what is going on, and I do not believe that the time I spend in communication about Strong City is NOT a waste of my time. Someday, I pray you will grasp this, but I also understand why you are not able to do so right now, and by the way, you are also worth my trouble.
I do have another twist on this current chain of events, and that deals with the “timing”. Why did Wayne choose “this time” to go on “this fast”? Does he have a hidden agenda? Consider this. Wayne has a predicable habit of repeating “studies”, events, and prophecies. Last 28 September 2009 was Yom Kippur, or “The Day of Atonement”, the highest Jewish feast day of the Autumn Feasts of Israel. All through the years of the LOR, Wayne has attempted to work himself into the biblical rhealm of things by trying to “Fulfill” scripture using his intrepretation of events, and his trying to create a chain of prophecies that center around him, his chosen dates and predictions, and lining all of them up with Jewish Feast days. Had this New Mexico judge not ruled to have prison doctors to be able to save Mr. Bent’s life by force feeding, there would have been a good “calculated” possibility on Wayne’s and Strong City’s part, that Wayne Bent could have died on Yom Kippur. Come on, look at this closely. What could have been their imagined ramifications if their messiah would have died on the Day of Atonement? Just think of the volumes that could have been written, and the predictions that would have come forth from the keyboards of Jeff Bent and the rest of Strong City. They see Wayne as a “high priest” and what would it mean if the high priest in Judea would die on the Day of Atonement, and what would that would mean to the camp of Israel and the rest of the world? I think Wayne Bent was looking for some more headlines. I do look forward to reading some input on this possibility. Any takers?
Ouch! Fair enough Esther, I accept the rebuke. I do have too much time on my hands at the moment, though I reckon I’m pretty mature. All I know about what you all think and feel is what you all told me yourselves on my TV and on public web forums, but the pain around LOR is so palpable and distressing that I feel a need to better understand why such nice people should all be so unhappy.
Anyway, there’s plenty enough pain here without me unintentionally adding to it. I guess I’ll go back to lurking.
With scant realization by most of us, this is the time of year when “the Days of Awe” take place. Beginning with Rosh Hashana and proceeding through ten days culminating in Yom Kippur, The Day of Atonement, the most solemn and holy day in Judaism. The day of judgement was to begin on Rosh Hashana. The books would be opened, the righteous would be written in the book of the living, the wicked are blotted out of the book, and the undecided would have a chance to repent as they examined life’s record and put things right over the course of days leading up to the Day of Atonement. On the Day of Atonement, a blood sacrifice was made. As part of the blood sacrifice ritual, two goats were selected and by the casting of lots one was chosen to be the Lamb of God, who takes way the sin of the people,(slain) the other is carried away into the wilderness to never be seen again. Wayne has set the table LORites, what is the voice telling you? The expiation of our sins? A fast unto death? suicide? modern day ritualistic human sacrifice? a trip into the wilderness of no return? For What? So you can be right. Indeed it is most solemn.
Johnny I wrote this just after Rosh Hashana began, to post here, but my lead in was not very well thought out.
Esther – Actually we all do have lives, most of us quite full lives. We all go to work all day (and sometimes into the night) doing things for other people (providing for others, people like you, food, clothing, supplies for living and services) and caring for our own families. Plus, lots of us spend some our time in volunteer work for the hungry and homeless and for senior citizens. I just got back from volunteering at a local charity hospital…that’s quite a scene (no one to rebuke there, just people in need). Our lives are dynamic and full, but we also do other enjoyable things too. We go to games and some of us participate in sports.
And we care about people who are in difficulties like you and Wayne Bent, enough to take a few minutes now and then to follow their stories online and study the particulars of their situations and we care enough to make a post every once in a while so we can all understand it better.
Some us are also commercial writers and we follow public stories because we are studying every source to determine the truth, with the intent of publishing books and articles which both entertain and inform (there is a story here and it’s still active).
So… no need to advise folks “to get a life.” We all have them and everyone of us could fill pages with what we do all day, everyday. On here, you only see the results of a tiny bits of diversion that happens a few minutes at a time now and then.
On another note, why don’t you bring us up to date on Wayne’s condition? Most of us here wish him well and would like to see him in good health. A few of us (like myself and others here) are hoping for a favorable outcome on his appeal and a reduction of his sentence to simply probation. My heart goes out to Wayne, I have nothing but pity for him and his dilemma. So, this isn’t all hostility. Your contributions would be welcome.
— Sam
And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
The Lord rebuke you, adversaries.
Hanifa –
Perhaps we could all profit from these words:
Hopefully, Wayne’s advice will enable you to forgive those whom you regard as your adversaries. I only wish for you that peace which he describes.
— Sam
You imagine that I have not forgiven, Sam. Forgiveness does not preclude truth telling.
And here is some more of Wayne’s wisdom:
There is so much to learn from Wayne said.
—Sam
Often brused and wounded humanity takes on the traits of the animal kingdom. I remember traveling late in the evening during a LOR Campmeeting season when we came across a wounded dog which had been struck by a moving vehicle. It was violently torn and was wounded unto death and was in great pain as it spund in circles in the middle of the road. Several vehicles had pulled over as it was a large dog to watch, I believe a Doberman Pincher, and some observers wanted to give it assistance. One man said we needed to put it out of it’s misery and he had a hammer in his hand for that purpose. The dog was insane with pain and struck out to anyone who attempted to assist it, even though most of us knew it’s wounds were mortal. Many protested killing the dog, but what kept the dog unassisted was the dog itself. Some of us wanted to only love on the dog and try to dress it’s wounds, dispite their serverity. Perhaps the dog could be saved if only it would resist it’s saviours. Nobody could do anything until the dog finally went into shock and then the man with the hammer was able to get to the dog first and gave it a wack, and it was all over. There were many tears that night.
People are often worse, and choose to not receive help and loving when it is offered. Everyone becomes an enemy to them and they strike out and say the strangest things. Some understand the pain and sorrow being felt, but am not able to help, because to receive that help would mean going against the events which brought on the painful results. The problem is the event itself, and not the results of the event. The LOR wants us to leave them alone, but there will always be those standing on the side watching, and reaching out the hand to help, but it gets bit in the process. This is so sad. This is human nature in both sides of the coin. What can anybody really do but wait for God and nature to take it’s course. It’s all part of cause and effect and life itself.
Remember the old deer tract that Wayne had written many years ago? Even though Wayne had a yummy thing in his hand,and spoke softly and walked slowly towards the deer, it would not change from it’s distrustful thinking, and would always run away. People are the same way, and yet there are always the exception, and the one trustful one whose nature it is to be open and unfearful, and reach out and receive the helping hand, and the yummy morsel of food. Heaven will be full of those trusting and needy souls, as they know who is really reaching out to them. And it is not always an evil being behind a smiling mask.
Johnny, wounded animals do sometimes calm down and realize some one is there with good intentions, and even as a friend. Though still in immense pain, they allow themselves to be entreated, even healed.
With men, sometimes they cannot do this. They have a doctrine that won’t allow it.
Animals have no such doctrine. It is this “doctrine” that makes men look over their shoulder and calculate what someone might think if they say something nice, or accept some good will or friendliness. Or show some of their own. This, whether they are in pain or not. Because of the doctrine, they know it will be perceived first as weakness, then that they are traitors.
“The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
“Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD.
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
“Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. We have the truth and want to help you.
“For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
“If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
“Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
“Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
“Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
“And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
“Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
“But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.
“And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
“Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
“And I will cast you out of my sight, (David Mead said he left Heaven & salvation. Johnny said he would never go back to the land.) as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.
“Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
“Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
“Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? (Johnny said he was blind.)
“Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
“For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt (1987 when we first left Egypt), concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
“But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
“But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
“Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
“Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
“Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
“But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
“Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the LORD hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.
“For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
“And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
“Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
“And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.
“Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.” (There is nothing more to say that has not already been said)Jeremiah 7
“It aint over til the fat lady sings!” Yogi Bera
(See, I can qoute relevant text also)
Yes, James. But guess what—when he sings, that’s who Milton thinks he is—the fat lady. When he speaks, he wants us to think it is over, no more to say.
It’s not so much what we as men say and do, but rather what God is really doing on the earth. Yes, we are commanded to bind and to let loose in the name of Jesus, but not to judge and throw around vain opinions based on concepts that stem from interpretation and understanding of mens ideas of scripture. The LOR through the years have preached the letter of the law, and a strick adhearance to their understanding of precepts and prophecy. (On pain of shunning and quick disfellowship). God deals in reality with the human heart, and with judgement mixed with equal measures of mercy. I do not read these things now in what is coming forth from the pen of the LOR.
I think what Esther meant by “get a life” is that you all spend too much time writing out paragraphs of untruths. She’s not saying you don’t have a life outside of that, but it is clear that some people have made this their hobby and even I find that a little strange. How many books are going to be published and how much money is going to be made off of Michael? How can a person make money off him yet hate him at the same time? Some here remind me of papparazzi.
I am praying for Michael each day and I wonder how he is doing. Please give an update soon. I had a dream that I was watching a video and in this video was Michael getting out of a car and all of his people were waiting for him. There were many smiles and tears. There was a light around everyone. A new dawn of peace. I will never stop praying that he is free.
How did we get from Christianity back to Judaism? Is that what the LOR is about, following the Jewish laws and calendar? Not to mention astrology which I believe borders on the satanic. It sounds like you might as well be following the mysticism of Kabbalah since I seriously doubt that any of you were raised in Jewish families.
I thought most of us were on the same page at least to the point that Christ died on the Cross for the salvation of ALL mankind. And by His death the old law was no longer valid (unless you are Jewish since they didn’t believe Christ was the Messiah). I guess I was wrong. What I’m hearing here is that those of you at SC don’t believe in Christ’s gift of salvation but are still following the old law and rules (commandments). I’m actually feeling very shocked right now!
So, some of you are celebrating these High Holy Day of the Jewish people, specifically Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur?
If my research is correct, Along with these days are the “Days of Atonement.” “The Day of Atonement absolves from sins against God, but not from sins against a fellow man unless the pardon of the offended person be secured”
Hence the custom of terminating on the eve of the fast day (or in the 10-day period between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur) ALL FEUDS AND DISPUTES.”
If those at SC and LOR followers who live elsewhere around the world are celebrating these Jewish Holy Days, NONE of you are doing a very good job at the “terminating on the eve of the fast day all feuds and disputes.” In fact, it seems to be getting worse!
I’m a Christian, I don’t participate in Jewish Holy Days just as I would not expect Jewish people to participate in my Christian Holy Days. I respect Jewish people and would never be so disrespectful to celebrate their Holy Days, it’s their belief not mine.
I thought the people of LOR were Christian but now I’m not sure. Except that WB likens his prison sentence to Jesus’ death on the cross. And there have been so many references to Christ’s suffering. I guess I just assumed you were Christian.
Boy, I am really confused! And sadden to know that so many of you don’t know that Jesus’ death brought the new law and made us free from the rigid rules of the Old Law.
Thank you all for commenting here. I found much of it substantive, interesting and respectful. A few comments, though, fell short of those marks.
I feel the recent threads have run their course and that it’s time to close them. When the time comes to post about a new development in the case, feel free to comment in that area.
Also, a request: Please only use one ID/Name to post on this blog. For some time now, various contributors to this blog have written to me claiming that someone (some times more than one person) is commenting here under two IDs/Names.
If these claims are to be believed, then at least four of you are posting under at least two IDs/Names. Furthermore, if the claims are true, then some of you have actually managed to carry on conversations with yourselves here. I must confess that the thought of such a “dialogue” brings a chuckle, at first blush. But when examined with some sensibility, it seems the motive for a “double identity” might arguably be to drive one’s agenda.
Really, gang, we’re not sitting at the poker table here. I think most can agree that the Wayne Bent story is one to be taken seriously. No need to bluff. Please put away any smoke and mirrors, too.
The standard here is simply to attach an honest voice (ID/Name) to a comment. Or watch from the stands.
Collectively, you’ve provided some tremendous dialogue here, in my opinion. Some might even argue that there are those of you who’ve become scholars of sorts on this case.
Certainly, many of you know more than I do about this matter. I am no expert here.
But I do have a role as “keeper of the blog.” And I can say, “Time for a break,” if I want to.
If news breaks tonight, okay. That’ll be a time for a new post and a time to advance this story.
Finally, a special thanks to those of you whom I know felt a bit intimidated to comment here. This blog was not designed to make anyone feel that way.
Thank you, especially, for bringing your voice to this forum. I believe that there are people on all sides of this story who feel that your contributions enriched the quest for truth & understanding.
Lastly, a point aimed at prevention (rather than driven from some popular trend): When commenting, please resist any temptation to form complete words with capital letters. No need for strings of multiple exclamation points, either. It all adds up to the equivalent of yelling in a room…over and over. Soon, people will ignore you. Please, no yelling.
Wayne Bent Breaks his Fast
Wayne Bent has broken his fast and he is now taking food from the “beast,” his name for the government. What he is doing is eating Ensure by mouth, which lots of senior citizens live on exclusively (go look at the Ensure web site and Google about it). It’s a tasty delicious protein and carb shake. Go look at his site and you will see how he explains it… once they got the naso/gastric tube in him and he found out how painful and miserable that was… then God revealed to him that drinking those Ensures was “ok.” As the “church lady” – old Saturday night live skit – says, “How convenient.” This story has not been reported in any news vehicle, probably because most don’t realize that he has indeed broken the fast and that the court ordered force feeding worked to cause him to take food by mouth which is provided by the prison (and that Ensure is mmm mmm tasty). Read his whole rambling bit of nonsense and you will see the real story emerge.
— Sam
That’s why I think this whole “fast” business is just a bunch of bunk. Just like Esther, at the last minute, “Father” directed her to eat. It’s all just to get attention! On their blog that have a fast counter and it’s at day 39.
DRINK ENSURE FAST
Now that Wayne has gotten a taste of the tubes down his nose, his voice told him to start taking the nourishing Ensure product. And now he is supposed to take it from the hand of the beast who will regularly deliver it to him. Now it seems, about the beast and its hand, Wayne’s lord/god/voice has changed it’s mind, It said, “drink Ensure fast”. Now Wayne is to receive all the nutrients necessary for life from the had of the beast. Imagine that. Why this sudden turn about, change of instructions?
Is this still the fast? Wayne is selling it as a fast, the same one as before. A fast from what? This new “fast” is certainly not a fast from nutrition. Not from nutrition, then a fast from what? Now its a fast from the tubes. What happened? The tubes, well, let’s just say they were not to messiah’s liking. And Soooo? What happened to all that considerable resolve? What happened to not breaking messiah, not to make him take nutrition at the hand of the state? Where did all the bluster go? Just a few moments with the tubes and it was over; bring me some of the good stuff to drink you have on your shelves.
The fast started out to be from food. At least that is how it was announced/sold to us. It was said to be made necessary, the fast, for the nourishment would came from the hand of the beast. For an innocent messiah to receive some nourishment from the beast’s hand was obscene, unthinkable. But now look, messiah receives the Ensure product from that very same hand—the hand of the beast. Amazing.
So he explains that the product is not manufactured in the prison. But neither do they grow or make any of their food there; it all comes from outside the prison. They get it all from their suppliers, then the prison delivers it to the prisoners. Ensure is no different from milk that way, or any other product; it too has to be obtained from elswhere. There are no cows in the prison population, just as there are no Ensure factories on site run by prisoners. Perhaps our man has not noticed this fact.
Wayne doesn’t need to bother himself with these facts, he has his voice. If the voice said it, facts don’t matter. If during the immediate discomfort of tubes inside you, you suddenly hear a voice telling you to start taking nourishment (drinking Ensure), you are still on your fast. At least this is what you believe, having no grasp on reality. Not only are you still on your fast unto death (which because of Ensure, you are ensured your death will not take place), you get the tubes taken out. See how that works. How convenient this voice of Wayne’s.
Added to all the other things that we were supposed to think were not what they were (do we need to mention them again), now taking nourishment is still fasting. Now the fast is not a fast. Reality is whatever Wayne’s voice says it is.
Has anybody ever wondered about that voice? The one that nobody else hears until Wayne hears it? It said “Drink Ensure fast, get the tubes out.”
Don’t forget that the IV water is now also being viewed differently. Of course, it’s not just water but an individualized prescription of different chemicals to prevent an electrolyte imbalance.
“This also applies to the water that is processed for my IV. It is viewed differently by heaven than the water of incarceration. God has not given me to resist the IV.”
As Gomer Pyle used to say, “Surprise, surprise, surprise!”
How did we get to medicinal?
I am really trying to be fair here and understand exactly how Wayne can now justify taking the Ensure. This began the end of August when a relatively healthy 68 year old imprisoned man began a fast which he stated multiple reasons for, but basically it was over the “beast,” not able to give him the proper vegan diet in a consistent manner. He just no longer could accept the trays, without the beans, and wanted his own loved ones to provide him his nutrition. It seemed when he was on the stand testifying (reference the posted transcript here) it was all about being with his loved ones and those missing beans.
Wayne was healthy and began a fast. He was told by “the voice,” that this is what he needed to do. When it became clear to the State that he was not going to eat they of course took the appropriate action and around that thirtieth day I would imagine began what the Court said they could and feeding Wayne with tubes. This was not very pleasant for Wayne, as he states. He was not very pleased and found it uncomfortable. Poor Wayne, again!
Why did it get to this? Because Wayne fasted! There is no other reason. The State did not stop feeding him. They did not put him in this unhealthy state, he did it to himself. So now he says because the Ensure is for medicinal purpose he can take it by mouth. Now it is ok, because it is to heal him. The only reason Wayne Bent needs to be healed is because Wayne Bent stopped eating and put himself in a dangerous weakened state. The Ensure is being brought by the same prison people, maybe a different area of the prison. He is not getting food from his loved ones as of yet.
Does this 68 year old man not remind us all of a spoiled little child? Again I am sure this all seems perfectly acceptable to his devoted people but to me this is just an unbelievable and very predictable scenario in the recent history of Mr. Bent. I can almost hear what that voice will be telling him next!
Jan
THE VOICE CHANGES ITS MIND
The voice keeps changing its mind. In this one of many examples, first it tells Wayne not to take sustenance from the hand of the beast (for the many reasons outlined). Then it tells him it is okay to take Ensure, a really good sustenance, one that many people use in that way.
In fact, it isn’t used for anything else (unless he is using it for a body lotion). It is especially designed for sustaining life, to provide you with nutrition and sustenance. Is our man unaware of what it is used for? Or should I say the voice; perhaps the voice (god) isn’t aware of its contents? You never know what he/it will do or say.
But all that talk about messiah’s considerable resolve, where did it go? We were told how it was not to be broken by the evil guards no matter what. Doe he still have it? Yes, Jeff would say. Jeff was very impressed with it. Messiah was going to die before taking sustenance from the evil system. What happened to all that? Where did it dissipate? No? Oh, its still there, now he is still resolved—now he is resolved not to be tubed. Why this? He discovered right away that it is not as comfortable as he expected. And how did this happen?
Like everything else, in his moment of “discomfort” with the tubes he heard another voice—WAYNE, TAKE THE SUSTENANCE.
Well of course. Far be it from our man to disobey the voice. He freely admits that he has tried that before. And look where it got him. He doesn’t want to cause something worse.
Who could have expected this? He saw god put his hand over the water faucet. No one else heard it or saw it, but now they all (at Strong City) know what it said and did. That’s how it works.
If Wayne told them to go and see if god would tell them the same thing, and to go see if god would put his hand over the faucet for them, (as when he instructed them to go see if god wanted them consummating with him) they would all come back saying the same thing, that yes, they all heard and saw it too.
But has anyone noticed it is Wayne who always hears it first and sees it first. If anyone of them heard something on their own (like, oh maybe, let’s a bunch of us all start consumating), something from one of their own voices, they would first run it by messiah for verification. If he says no, it’s no, they were just hearing voices.
After reading through those comments at the SC site, I wonder if they are all going to go into a fast together soon.
If WB does not drink from the prison fountain or take their food, this means he is trying to break the will of the prison system and get his food delivered, OR it will be a constant cycle of fasting until he is moved to the hospital.
I do not think the warden will put up with this too long.
What will happen? Will they bend to his will?
We drink water to cleanse our body, the cells and our organs being continually cleansed with “water”. Without it our body begins to shut down depending on amount taken in.
Our skin is the largest organ of our body and it too needs cleansing, just as our inside body.
Why is he using water offered by “the beast” for cleansing the outside, as well as toileting, shaving and other “comfort” amenities?
If he truly believes this claim to be true, that God commanded him to abstain and cannot take the faucet water and that he saw a hand over the faucet in the beginning.
Then why not the outside of his body as well?
This just is not adding up or making sense. I hope for the guards sake that “the voice” doesn’t tell him to stop cleansing the outside as well, else his body will smell as rotten as his fruits!
I believe the hospital he is in is in the prison, so he hasn’t moved too far.
I think the breaking point for him will be that as along as he continues this fasting and needing “special” care, the majority of his visiting rights are cut off. That’s gotta hurt worse than abstaining from food. Maybe he didn’t realize when he started his fast that the privileges he enjoyed up until then would be greatly curtailed.
Than again, he’s full of surprises and has no problem changing his mind when he “hears” the voice. So who knows what lies around the corner. And today is the 40th day (according to their website), although I think we need a recount because he’s broken his fast several times during these 40 days.
I would be very curious about who is visiting him now and how it compares to before the Fast began, or if he is having any visitors at all. He clearly stated that he wanted more time with his loved ones, which seemed apart of why he wanted them to bring his vegan meals. Well they are not apparently bringing him the Ensure and if he has been restricted from visits then what has he accomplished?
And I have been focusing too on the 40 days but as KM points out this has not been a continuous Fast in the real sense for 40 continuous days.
Restart the count.
The count should be restarted. The reason, now it’s a new fast. The new fast is not from nutrition as the old one was advertised; now he takes nutrition. Because of the voice, his fast has changed, Now his fast is from the tubes.
Perhaps we should consider the reason this counter’s still “ticking” and we are now on day 40.
In just a few hours Sabbath begins and he and people of SC enter their rest.
Mr Bent is following the exact chronological sequence of events of Jesus 40 day fast,
where just as Jesus, he too was in the wilderness, as angels ministered and encouraged, wild beast surrounding, Satan tempted Him but He did not sin.
So tonight when Sabbath begins at sundown Mr Bent will have fulfilled just as Jesus.
And just as Jesus, Mr Bents claim that he did not sin or give into the Beast or Satan as well.
Perhaps tomorrow will bring us news of this and we’ll soon learn that he is entering into a new journey,
and how he was victorious as was Jesus and only those who see him as messiah has ability to discern “their truth” and that Mr Bent no longer needs this fast.
Maybe I just “blew it” for him and now he’s got to rewrite and change a few things. ooops!
PS. I’ve been fasting over 734 days now. And I’m feeling awesome! And if all goes well, I will continue this fast for another 40 years as I’ve done just fine without Tofu, Turnips and Garbonzo beans.
What does everyone at SC eat? I see they are vegans but what exactly do they live on?
What does everyone at SC eat? I see they are vegans but what exactly do they live on? Where is it in the bible that they cannot eat meat?
Anonymous One, can Google Search SDA diet for more information, but here’s a little of what I’ve learned thru my studies in nutrition the last 10 years.
Nowhere in the Holy scriptures can it be found
where it states “thou shall not eat ground round”
But a more natural plant based vegan diet is most healthy because our western diet is cause for heart disease, diabetes
and cancers alarming epidemic rates.
An independent study of members of the SDA faith live an average 7 & 8 yrs longer than average population
http://www.sdachip.org/
http://www.sd
Best book on the market to read about Western diet death
China Study. It has no connection with the SDA church.
The China Study details the connection between nutrition and heart disease, diabetes and cancer.
http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html
The science is clear. The results are unmistakable.
Change your diet and dramatically reduce the risk of cancer, diabetes, heart disease and obesity.
Respected nutrition and health researcher, Dr. T. Colin Campbell reveals the truth behind special interest groups, government entities and scientists that have taken Americans down a deadly path
Even today, as the low-carb craze sweeps the nation, two-thirds of adults are still obese and children are being diagnosed with Type II diabetes, typically an “adult” disease, at an alarming rate. If we’re eating healthier, why are Americans stricken with heart disease as much as we were 30 years ago?
Sorry it was such long post, but the SC diet needed explanation as they follow the same diet as those in the SDA church. Is not an issue of animal foods being a “sin”, but is more about healthy living which our bodies being the Temple of the Holy Spirit we abstain from harmful practices in not only diet, but in physical excersise, temperance, prayer and trust in Divine Guidence.
Sorry, I just noticed part of the link was missing.
Here’s the correct link you will find most interesting and explains best the reason for our seemingly crazy diets.
http://www.sdada.org/position.htm
Thank you so much for that in depth information and all of the links! I’m going to take some time to read them tonight. I really appreciate it. I do agree our western diets are bad for us. My mom had a heart attack a year ago and her doc told her it was fast food, etc.
David made a great post about restarting the count. I have a feeling when the new message is heard by Wayne it will have some special significance about the days this fast lasted and of course why it is no longer necessary to fast.
Since I see we are at Day 41 there must have been a start and restart in there somewhere. In fact if Wayne quickly gained 10 lbs he could easily go 30 more days without the tubes and technically be fasting for a long time.
So he gets down to the critical period and then goes on Ensure then fasts for a few weeks again and around and around we go.
Ok Hanifa and Esther can you defend or explain this?
THE NEW COUNT
Does anybody know the new count? How many days since our man started taking his nourishment so the tubes would be removed?
I don’t think the count means anything. I think they just haven’t bothered to remove it yet.
I have been reading posts from the keyboard of Wayne Bent since 1988, and I have noticed a drastic change in his writing style and approach to everything, especially in the past year or so. I just can’t believe what I am reading now-a-days. But nothing as drastic as what is appearing from his pen in the last three months. I have never seen Wayne go to such great lengths to justify his current situation as he has been doing, especially this past month. It seems as if he isn’t even thinking about what he is presenting and how it appears to the normal reader who forms their opinions strickly from his written words alone. This last post seems so “Off the Cuff” and unsubstansiated with thoughts which have no proof texts or evidence to back up his claims. We are to simple trust the “voice” which is telling him reasons for his current behaviour and decisions to state that he is still fasting, when in fact he is not. “Ensure” is not medicine. It is a nutricious sweet milk shake used to nurish the body when it is not able to receive food through the normal means. It has vitamins, minerals, proteins, and carbs to run the human body. It is not regulated by any drug standards, nor is it ever prescribed like a doctor regulated drug through a standard drug program. You can buy it at Walmart, Sam’s Club, or any food grocery chain. Some people use it for going on a diet to lose weight, and the state of New Mexico is using it to “fatten” up Wayne Bent to keep him alive. It is food, and is known to be liquid food. It is not medicine, and even God knows that better than anyone. Is this the best that the Voice can give to Mr. Bent to substain his flock with spiritual food, real “Manna” from heaven per say. This Ensure will give them hope to hold on to his mission for the ages. It really appears that he is going with the flow as each new day comes around. Now Wayne is going to get healthy from drinking Ensure with his mouth, because the tubes hurt, and he is going to get fed anyway, one way or another. It really looks like he is giving in to me. And then what happens when he gains about 30 or so pounds from the Ensure. I can just see day 78 of the fast as Wayne receives his (Food, medicine) 3 times a day and he wipes his lips off with a paper napkin and he burps and says “Excuse me”. Are we all really that stupid to fall for all of this? When will God tell Wayne that it is OK to eat some Lentals, what the children of God ate when the contest was on between Daniel’s friends and the choice men of the King. The scriptures even said the friends of Daniel were “fatter” than the King’s men. I can seriously picture a fat Wayne Bent on day 137 of the fast. holding out his cup when his prescribed medicine shows up on schedule each and every meal time. They will have to take his pants out a few inches to accomadate his daily medicine intake. I just wonder how much water accidentally trinkles into Wayne’s mouth when he takes a shower. Honesty Wayne, is this the best that you can do to hold on to your flock and your kingdom? Clearly you are a man who is under the influeance of “Ensure”, a food substance so full of sugar, that it turns into alcolhol when it goes into your bloodstream. Yes, one can get drunk on “Ensure”, I can imagine. Well Wayne, A Toast, I lift my cup up to you. Live long and prosper, old friend, and be sure to not forget to recycle and throw away your emptys in a proper waste can.
MESSIAH ENSURED
What will messiah’s drink, Ensure, what will it do for him? Besides nourish and keep him alive, it will ensure that he is no longer on his fast. The way things were going, all things considered, it just became too uncomfortable. At least this is what he said about it. And I am sure we all agree.
Good for you Wayne, we certainly didn’t want to see you gone. I feel like I was the only one who was not afraid of that, anyway.
Johnny – I think this is how Bent trys to “spin” things. He talks out of both sides of his face and now is trying to justify him taking the Ensure. Part of me wonders if he really fears death!?
What is wrong with Wayne Bent?
Johnny the part of your post that I found the most interesting was how you have noticed such a drastic change in his writing style and his approach to everything. I certainly am no expert on this because I have not read many of Wayne’s earlier writings as others here have. But even I have sensed a change as he seldom backs up his words with any rational thoughts at all. He rambles all over everywhere and I find it very hard to fathom how any of his true supporters can not be worrying more about his mind than even his body. His body will thrive with the Ensure but his mind perhaps is long gone. I honestly believe there is much to be studied by comparing his earlier works with what we are seeing now. Something just is not quite right with all of this and I believe it is more than the fast, more than just being in prison and perhaps some deep mental problem.
Jan
GET A LIFE
Every once in a while, an LOR will come on with some advice for us on how to live. They might say something like we heard recently, “get a life.”
In their tone we understand what they mean; as compared to us who have none, they have one. Sam, in speaking for the rest of us here answered them very nicely. He described a little of our lives for them, for how would they know.
From where they are, they can’t see us. From where they are can’t even see out. They think they can, but what they see is only their imagination. And their imagination of the world only comes from inside their own head. As they describe their views for us, we see the reflection of their own thoughts, only what goes on in their heads.
We can look around at the natural world around us for an example by which to compare those like the LOR’s, their lives and how they think, what they see. Where do we see in nature this, the LOR situation?
They feel completely “protected”, insulated from outside influence. Whatever the one man says, they buy it (eat it). If he doesn’t buy (eat) it first, they don’t eat it either. This is their life, how it works. They feel they need nothing more. So, where in nature do we find this sort of life style lived out? For such an example, allow me to suggest the life of a tape worm?
How does a tape worm live and experience life? A tape worm is insulated nicely from outside influences inside where he lives. He is always protected from the cold and the weather. He always has plenty to eat. He feels a close kinship with his host.
At first, he may be offended at some of the things coming down from above at him, but after he eats them, having no choice in the mater, after a while he decides they are pretty good. If he ever decided something was so offensive as to be rejected by him, he would be slid right on out of there. If he knows what is good for him, he will not decide that.
All anyone needs to do to see that we “have a life” is look at the front page of Prudence’s blog.
The joy I see in her face and the face of her child show me that she is truly living a wonderful life. Yes, she has sadness to deal with but she also has a beautiful family and a beautiful life. God doesn’t shelter us from sadness, illness or hurtful people. But He embraces us and gives us strength to get through the tough moments.
And there are so many other people who are experiencing joy in their lives. Johnny had a reunion with family members and he’s written a book. He’s joyful after many years of sadness. And there are many more ex-followers (if you just want to look at their lives) who are also loving the life they’re living.
Sadly, there are no little children to love and nurture at SC, they’ve all been sent away. Unless he’s completely exonerated, when Bent gets out there still will not be any young children. And children give us so much love and have no hidden agenda, they just love. They have no pets to cuddle with on a cold night, take for a walk or to receive from them their unconditional love. They have few friends on the outside to call up and chat with or enjoy a cup of coffee with at the local diner. All they have is each other (along with broken marriages and exiled family members) and all they want is for their leader to return.
So, let them enjoy their isolated, insulated life at SC, pining away for their “messiah”, but give me the joy of family and friends along with the trials that will occasionally cause me pain. I’d rather feel the pain than be so protected from the world God created that I feel nothing.
Bravo KM Bravo……. (Applause)!!!
KM hits the nail on the head. Excellent post.
Why do the people at SC want no children around them? The bible clearly states that children are a heritage of the Lord.
When Esther says “Get a life”, oh honey, I have a life. I have had the wonderous joyful experience of giving birth. I have a precious child and I am a mother. Some of these young women at SC do not want a baby. They claim that Wayne is the newborn “baby” they found in the “woods”.
Why does Hanifa deny her own daughter the joy of being a mother and giving birth as she was allowed to experience? She has taught her not to have children from what I can see. As the people at SC have no patience for them, they don’t even want animals around them. Yes, something very wrong with this to me.
WB sits in prison and these young beautiful women are going to sit in their trailers every day praying for this man to return while they shun every good opportunity to experience the joys that life can bring. I find it strange that the women such as Danielle, Liberty, and Esther do not want to have a family of their own.
I could be wrong but I do not think they will let WB out of prison. He will serve at least up to 5 or 7 years and if he dies in prison what will these women do?
I find it sad because they tell us to get a life while I probably have more of a life than they will ever know.
KM did you ever read their old blogs the women used to keep? Alot of them had pictures depicting a mother holding a newborn. It made me wonder if they were all wishing for babies of their own.
As for family goes, I wonder if Ami ever wishes she were spending more time with her handsome son who has grown up quite alot. Does she ever sit and wonder how much she is missing out on?
I believe we get one go around here, before we leave this earth and time is short and precious.
I just had a friend pass away at 50 years old. She had diabetes and did not know it. She led the healthiest lifestyle and ate similar to how the SDA eat. She always took care of herself. It was a shock to all of us when she went to sleep and passed from having a heart attack. She never woke to see her new grandbaby that had been born that afternoon.
I am still heartbroken over it all as are her sons and daughters.
My point here is, we just never know when our time ends on this earth and I wonder if these people in SC will ever understand the depth of that loss when we are separated from our families and friends all in the name of “beliefs”. And all of the things they have give up for WB. All of those joys life affords us… they are choosing to let slip through their hands for a fake messiah. An old man who can never give them nothing but lies.
The more I think of these things I begin to pity them more than ever.
Those of us here wondering, astonished really, at their “lives” (or rather lack of them), I have a question for you. Why do you think the best they can do as they write us is to condemn us to what they imagine as hell and hiss at us to get a life?
Very nice post KM and I agree that it is great now seeing Prudence living a full and rich life with her family. She was intelligent enough to realize that things were not quite right on the Land and was brave enough to leave. A place that does not even want small children or pets has to be a very cold place in deed. How many people can even be living there now? Thirty? With Jeff and Wayne’s brides all near the prison who is left? What kind of world could even exist on the land?
I find it quite telling that since Esther came on here and suggested we all “get a life” and many have shown her that we actually have one she has not returned. What do you do with your days now Esther? You are not even living on the Land anymore.
And the so called Fast continues, 45th day. How is the ensure, Mr. Bent?
Hope – I’m sure Esther, Hanifa and the others are here, lurking around in the shadows, they just don’t want us to know because they have a life and we don’t!
I’m trying to figure out who said Strong City didn’t want children on the land. Is that since Bent got in trouble? I thought children are welcome there as long as they were well behaved and didn’t get out of hand.
The whole concept about there not being any children left in the LOR originated with their understanding that the final, true people of God are sinless, and are to be sinless while dwelling on the earth. In time past, church members caught in open sin were purged from the church in order to keep the church pure. Sometimes when a secret sin was confessed to a minister, that minister often turned on the confessing one and turned states evidence against them, and there would be a short trial, and that one was also given the boot. Sort of takes away the need of a crucified Saviour who was willing to to be a real Messiah to the people. When these sinners were children, they were often shipped off to relatives, or the whole family moved off the land owned by the church, so they could keep their erring child. I am not going to mention names, but the LOR has a rather lengthy list of sinners still in her membership, and these sinners are allowed to stay on the church books, as long as they show proper repentance, and do penance for their former evil deeds. That inner circle around Wayne Bent did have it’s advantages. Sometimes they were disfellowshipped for a short period of time, but they come back after jumping through the proper hoops to regain acceptance with the church (Wayne). Some of these sinners had signed over their inheridances to the church as well. Some of the sins committed were wife beating (Spanking), homosexuality, fornication, child abuse, child sexual abuse, stealing, gossipping, telling lies, and well, I guess they have done practically everything under the sun, and yet they continue to stand under their “Sinless” banner. We all know how pure their “convicted” messiah is by all means.
Anyway these children most of the time when they got shipped off, did indeed go out and get a life of their own, and they never did come back to the LOR. Young teenage boys were the first to get the boot, and that is why there were so many avialable young female virgins on the land when they were needed. No eye candy for the girls to look at, just old men and married couples. Married couples were the next institution to be split apart, so there were no more healthy family units for the remaining children to look upon and pattern their lifes after, just a old impotent man walking around with two married women hanging off each side of him and catering to his every whim. Pets were discouraged on Strong City, as they attracted coyotes and cougers. But perhaps a couple of cougers were allowed to roam the land at will, and take their pick from among the membership…
Thank you for your kind words! I’m sure many of us have thought what I wrote, I just finally had the time to sit down and post it.
Anon, no I don’t remember the blogs or pictures but I’ve always wondered about the younger women not wanting a family. A family comes with so many blessings that you tend to forget the hard times that are also part of any relationship. I can’t imagine my life without my family and I look forward to having grandchildren. To be young and not want a child or the children you’ve already been given seems so unnatural. I met Ami’s son, handsome young man, what a blessing he could be to his parents or to one of the beautiful girls who are “married” to Bent. They are missing out on so much.
I still remember the awe and joy I felt the first time I held my babies. And the love in my heart when they put their little hand in mine. So many little things that you don’t remember all the time but a certain moment will bring them out of the recesses of your brain.
How sad for your friend and her family, sadness and joy in the same moment. But, you are so right! We get one chance at this life. One chance to use what God has given us for his glory. They are letting life pass them by and I wonder too if they will ever understand how joyous life on earth can really be?
David, I think we are condemned by them because they are in their own living hell and they can’t stand the fact that some people got out of that hell (or were never in it) and are enjoying the life God gave them. They are sad and miserable so we should be as well. They are caught up in Satan’s grip and at the name of “Jesus” they could break free but they are afraid, which is why I still pray for them.
Diane, I’m not sure how it happened but family by family the ones with young children left, before he got in trouble. Prudence wrote something about a meeting and children, I think one of her boys broke his arm or leg. Supposedly he was worried that if kids kept getting injured, the authorities would start looking at SC. Hah! My 5 children have all had broken bones and stitches, it’s a part of growing up. My children were well behaved for the most part but I can imagine the fun they would have living in a camp style setting. They would be enjoying it to the fullest.
The children who stayed, Esther, Danielle, Willow and Healed are the ones I’m thinking of, are now grown and have become his “wife” or want to be. Marriages aren’t happening so none of them are having children because they aren’t married to a man who can give them that gift. I just read Johnny’s post and I think he has a better understanding of no children at SC.
This is the day the Lord hath made! Enjoy it! 🙂
@Johnny – In your previous posts you said that Wayne’s latest writings were “unsubstantiated with thoughts which have no proof texts or evidence to back up his claims. Then we have your “thoughts.”
Just FYI, ingested sugar does not turn to alcohol, Ensure can’t make you drunk and Wayne most certainly was not impotent.
Sam, I am going to sort of unload on you, but this is not personal, please believe me. I am addressing a mindset often seen on this forum. I still like you and welcome your input. But I am surprised that you would even say what you just said. Every medical student who has ever cracked a medical text book knows how the human body assimulates sugar and alcohol, and how sugar and alcohol is broken down. Come on Nurses and chemists, back me up on this one. Sugars and alcohols work together in many of the same ways. And yes, Ensure is packed full of sugar. But what do I know, I am only a gasman.
And yes, Wayne is very impotent, as he was clipped a very long time ago. Go ask his last legal wife Sandy Bent, as she was the one who dropped that bomb shell to the other minister’s wives many years ago. I got this from Stephanie Armstrong. I do have my trust worthy connections, and I have no problem naming them.
You know Sam, you have spent a whole lot of time reading Wayne’s writings and have gone to great lengths to make them avialable, and you appear to have rather good recall when it comes to be able to find something that Wayne has written, but one thing that you will never be able to do. You were even referred to be a “Expert” witness for the trial. But there is one thing that you are NOT expert at. And that was to have also lived through those events that you are so able to pull up onto a computer screen so well. I saw the original words when they were first written. I experienced the conversations the LOR members had among themselves in their homes, and while walking on the land, words which were never put into print. I saw their facial expressions, their tears, the confusion at times. I saw the personal battles in these minds and souls. I experienced the gut wrenching self-examinations which were imposed on the church membership. I saw real life people come and go, some sent off to total isolation and loneliness, some who were only children. I cried, fasted, broke bread with, and prayed with these people 18 and a half years. I even for most of that time believed in Wayne Bent/Michael Travesser. I saw and experienced first hand, everything when it happened, because I was there. Am I just talking about just simple “thoughts” here? My whole body, along with my brain was involved as well. I’ve got plenty of evidences which speak for themselves. My thoughts are not heresay, and even Strong City knows that, including Mr. Bent himself. The LOR sees me as a backsliding, turncoating Judus. I have been called that to my face, especially through e-mails, which I still have on my harddrive. Yet they, the LOR also knows that I was with them way too long to not know what I am talking about. David Mead was only there in the beginning, but I ran the whole length of the whole course. I still have all the CD’s, papers, movies, and even things that you do not have in your possession, as evidences that I am telling the truth. There was reasons why Strong City did not want Prudence Welch to take the stand at Wayne’s trial. Her and other former members like myself would have painted a very different and accurate picture of Cult life in the LOR. FOR WE WERE THE LOR as much as the current LOR members are the LOR. And not all of us are bitter and angry. It was just how our lives played out. We can’t do it all over again. Sam, where were you when all of these events were happening, even from day one when the church was formed? If it wasn’t for the comments posted on here by the formers members, the rest of you who do post on here would not have a single shread of truth to back your “theorys” on. And if we, the former members were to leave this forum, where would you be? Many of you take great pleasure in looking behind the figleaves of the LOR, but you are not willing to give us a little peek at your own vunderability. Are you all any different? For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There are a lot of “stone” throwers who lurk on this forum, who throw their stones and then log off. For some of you this is great sport. I may have sniffed propane for 30 years, but I do have a mind left and I do know the LOR. My Dad used to tell me, “Just because my ass is dumb, does not mean that I am a “Dumbass”. And I would not trade my experiences for anything else under the sun. Because this is my life, and I get no other life to live while on this blue ball. Yes, and maybe Esther is right to a degree. Maybe some of you do need to get a life. I hope my current posting here does not offend anyone. I just want some of you to be real, compassionant, and not forget what all of this posting on Mark’s forum is really about. It’s to help people to know the truth, so mistakes are not repeated ever again. And it is to help people to help themselves. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Johnny – Thanks to my husband, I am forced to watch the prison shows on MSNBC on the weekends and yes, they make that special prison blend, hooch or better known as PRUNO with sugar. Here’s what you need to make it. Make note of the 50 single serving packets of sugar, important ingrediant!
Things You’ll Need:
8 ounces of fruit (one source can be fruit cocktail)
Sealable bag (such as Ziplock bags)
Rubber bands
50 single serving packages of sugar
Water (one pound)
Ketchup (5 to 6 teaspoons)
Ten peeled oranges (optional)
When I was a prison guard in 1978, the inmates called it “Buck”. So yes, Ensure can very directly be used to make “Hooch, Buck, Pruno”. I did not even consider that possibility. But you forgot to add the most important ingrediant to the mixture. And that is “Yeast”. I don’t think that Wayne’s “fast” will permit all of that good food to pass his lips, unless the “Voice” has had first dibs on the bottle, and approves of the delightful drink, after all it does not come forth from a faucet like water does.
Hey Johhny,
Don’t think Sam was challenging all that you said. Just a couple points of difference. But I am glad you said what you did anyway. Good thoughts really. I doubt you would have said them had you not been slightly provoked. I too would make a point by way of clarification; yes, I was there (only) at the beginning, but it was what Wayne and I put together that stayed with the group after I left. (I take no credit for the foolishness that Wayne put together by himself, of which the world is now aware).
Hey Sam, don’t say things that get Johhny going like that. (Actually, right or not, I’m glad it did. What he said should be helpful to anyone interested in this case)
Johnny – What is the name of your book? I would luv to get a copy.
Thank you!
My Dad loves his Brandied Fruit on ice cream. At 79 and still working hard it’s nice for him to have a little treat now and then. After he starts in in a big jar, he stirs it and adds a little sugar everyday.
johnny, you are definitely a source for inside information, although I’m sorry that it ended the way it did. But, we have to remember that God has a plan for all of us and His way, which might be painful at the time, is the path we should follow in our lives.
One word that can be confusing though is impotent. Some people do use it to mean sterile or unable to produce seed but the most common definition is a man is incapable of getting or maintaining an erection. Thus the annoying ads for the little blue pill.
And I chuckled to myself when I remembered a picture they had on the news of you and others sitting in the courtroom listening to thing you knew weren’t true. I’ll bet you had more than a few people shaking in their boots (including Bent) because you knew the truth! Too bad you weren’t a witness!
I dare say that Wayne Bent certainly is not impotent or there must not have been any of those consummations that he smiled about. Being sterile to me is not the same as impotent. Fortunately for these young ladies he apparently is sterile having had a vasectomy at some point but older men now have a way with that little blue pill to have a full and rich sex life.
You’re in luck Johnny, look no further for expertise. Irony of ironies, I am an organic chemist. That’s the work I have done for the past 40 years, running a organic chemical research laboratory. I not only do document work as you have heard, but I do forensic chemical analysis and research as well. I won’t try to give you an education in chemical esoterica, but if you are interested in the chemistry of sugar metabolism, then you can read this link for a good discussion:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573894/Sugar_Metabolism.html
In animals (humans being animals), the end of the chain of reactions in the metabolism of sugar results in the production of lactic acid (utilized by the body as fuel). With plants, on the other hand, the end of the similar chain of reactions starting with sugar does result in ethyl alcohol. It’s a defining difference between plants and animals.
No, sugar does not become alcohol after ingestion and like I said… “you can’t get drunk on Ensure.” And talking about making it into “hooch” is like changing the goal posts during the game, a common LOR tendency it seems.
Johnny, it never hurts to admit when you’re wrong. No point in defending the indefensible (sadly, yet another LOR trait).
Johnny – Bravo!
Hmmm … Johnny Miller
I find what you say Johnny a bit over the top, quite honestly. I think over and over again many and perhaps most of the people that have posted here on Mark’s forum have shown a great deal of compassion for the people at Strong City. I know I have said over and over again that I personally care what happens to them and that I feel badly they have decided to cast their souls for a man I personally do not believe is worthy. I have also said though that it is their right to think and believe whatever they want. I do not think I have to open the doors of my own personal life to be able to offer thoughts on this subject.
There is no question that you were there Johnny Miller and you have the greater insight into the events at Strong City. You have witnessed much of this up close and very personally. Has anyone here questioned that? No one that I can see has been anything but most grateful for any bit of personal stories that you have been willing to share. So your rant trying to defend it seems unnecessary. I hope you will share more as it is always the most interesting posts here. I believe that is your area of expertise.
I am glad though that you asked for an expert, “chemist.” You perhaps were not aware of how Sam Redman has made his living for the past forty years!
Jan
Perhaps I can explain a little of what may lie behind Johnny’s attitude toward milk and sugar as found in the Ensure product. All SDA’s are aware of some quotations by their prophet Ellen White that speak of the effects of these two things when taken together. (And of course, LOR, where Johnny came from has the same prophet.)
In the LOR as well, but more so in the SDA religion, diet (thinness) has replaced the gospel. In practice, thinness passes for holiness and the thin are respected while the thicker are passed over. Perhaps you have noticed there are not too many thicker people in LOR. It’s a large part of their religion.
For what it is worth, here is a couple examples of what the prophet said about sugar and milk.
“Some use milk and a large amount of sugar on mush, thinking that they are carrying out health reform. But the sugar and milk combined are liable to cause fermentation in the stomach, and are thus harmful.”
“I frequently sit down to the tables of the brethren and sisters, and see that they use a great amount of milk and sugar. These clog the system, irritate the digestive organs, and affect the brain. Anything that hinders the active motion of the living machinery, affects the brain very directly.”
Ok, Ok, Uncle… I will give Sam the baton on this one. I may be out on the edge on this sugar/alcohol debate. But I do agree with my friend Mr. Mead about the SDA teachings by Ellen White, and also Yuchi Pines Institute where I got alot of my ideas about the bodies chemical reactions to substances, especial milk and sugar, which was exactly what I was really referring to. I certainly would not desire to live on Ensure like someone we all know here. My most resent rant probably centers on my frustration of helplessness of not being able to reach my former friends, and the apparent craziness of a certain Mr. Wayne Bent. I hate to apply labels, but he does open himself up for them. And yes Jan, I too care for the inhabitants of Strong City as well. My former wife still living there keeps me glued to the news about this group. And anytime I need a chemist in the future, I will surely call on the services of Mr. Redman. I did not know of his background at all.
I am also an expert on Propane, and I know much more than Hank Hill will ever know, not that it matters, and that knowledge does not pay for a cup of coffee for me at the local Cafe, and really has nothing to do with the LOR, as also does this discussion about sugar. I was wrong, am corrected, and will not bring it up again… just don’t get me started on Propane, because I have quite a few stories about that most excellant fuel… Did you know that it is non-toxic, and has a Octane of 120? Like I said, don’t get me started.
Very nice response Johnny… I’m happy and you’re happy. It’s great to be friends with you.
You know crow really tastes alot like chicken.
i just hope that non toxic, high Octane propane isn’t a drink, I prefer coffee! Night all! 😉
I could almost see Hank Hill and Johnny Miller standing in the alley having a beer and talking propane.
Johnny – I LOVE Hank Hill!! Yup.
I have a question about the hearing and witnesses. If you and Prudence had so much knowledge of the LOR, why didn’t they call either of you on the stand? Especially when it could have helped their case. I don’t get that!
That happened to my cousin Mike during the murder trial. For example, they had someone from the maintenance department testify about a paper machine and how it functions from start to end and what happens in the event of a paper break. Okay, the guy really wasn’t from maintenance but he was from another department and never worked on a paper machine in his life. Here they convicted 6 INNOCENT men on hearsay, double and triple hearsay and “inexpert” witnesses. No evidence at all.
After 5 1/2 years when my cousin was released, Judge Gordon ruled that the guilty verdict required the jury to pile speculation on top of inferences that were drawn from other inferences and such a verdict is not rational. The jury couldn’t differentiate one man from the other so they just called them all guilty. They wasted weeks of peoples time and tax payers money, the remaining 5 men will eventually get out. I believe that with all my heart. http://monfilsconspiracy.org/
What I don’t get is why the lawyers would not call Johnny or Prudence? The state got a conviction on Bent but I don’t think they did all that great of a job. Can you shed some light on that for me Johnny??
I think that I might shed some light on your question Diane, since I was in communication with the Prosecution and heard and understood the detailed explanation of their “case theory” and their tactical plan for presentation of the evidence.
The prosecution decided to make the case center around one issue: Was a crime committed involving inappropriate touching of an intimate part of a minor child in violation of New Mexico law? They did not want to play into the principle defense tactic which was to try to make this primarily about freedom of religion. And so, having former members who would talk about Wayne’s teachings and what went on there could have resulted in lengthy cross examinations (involving whether they were just vindictive or had issues with Wayne’s religous beliefs) which would have then taken the jury’s focus away from the question of “did he touch an intimate part of a minor child’s body?”
They decided that having testimony from former members who were not even “on the land” when the incidents occurred and certainly not present in Wayne’s bedroom during the incidents would add nothing to the case. They had the parents’ testimony to give circumstances surrounding the incidents and they had the victims themselves saying what happened and most importantly,the defense announced prior to that trial that the accused, himself, had made the decision give up his constitutional rights and to take the stand. When Bent illustrated under oath where he had placed his hand on the girls’ chests during nude sessions, that really enabled the prosecution to focus narrowly on the distinction of whether, when he did that, “was his hand touching a part of the breast?”
The defense made every effort to try to make it about freedom of religion, but then they responded to the prosecution approach, attempting to rebut the prosecution’s case by using the Barbie doll. In their approach, the defense was trying to define an intimate part as being the nipple and areola and not the fleshy part of the breast, which the prosecution maintained met the requirement of the statute defining a criminal act.
By keeping their presentation and their summations clean, simple and well-focused, they were able to get the jury to concentrate on making what is called a “common sense decision,” whether when Bent placed his hand in the fashion which he illustrated (an on-the-stand sworn admission) on the naked girls’ chests, was he touching a part of their bodies which would meet the definition of a forbidden-by-law intimate part.
Had Wayne not taken the stand (he foolishly gave up his right to remain silent) and made that admission and had he not done the hand on the chest demonstration to the jury, then the prosecution would have had a harder time proving that a crime had occurred. They might then have called the former members so that they could describe events leading to and surrounding the laying naked (such as his verbal and email communications and all of the step-by-step procedures leading up to his sexual conquests with the remaining virgins ) so that such things as grooming and sexual intent would have been established. But, with Wayne testifying and admitting to what the victims said and illustrating where his hand was placed, none of the other was necessary.
— Sam
Thank you Sam! That does make sense to me now and your right, they probably wouldn’t have gotten a conviction had they done otherwise.
I’m sorry to keep bringing up my cousin’s case BUT, I can’t help it. : )
Happy Thursday Folks!
PS, I don’t ever want to hear about global warming again. It’s 41 degree’s right now in Green Bay, Wisconsin, 30 degree’s below normal. we literally saw snow flakes here on Monday. I would call that “global cooling”!
Check out this simulation of Wayne’s hand going over a bikini-clad girl’s heart, along with an actual photo of Wayne testifying, showing the jury on his own chest exactly where he placed his hand over the girls’ hearts:
http://strongcity2.info/images/handoverheart.html
It lets you envision what the jurors were picturing in their mind’s “eyes” based on the prosecution’s presentation.
Diane,
You should feel free to bring-up your “cousin’s case” whenever you see fit. As you know, I covered that case for a few months back in 1994/95 while working at WBAY-TV in Green Bay.
If you can draw upon your family’s experiences in the Monfils case to address themes concerning the justice system in the Bent case, the resulting perspective further enriches this blog’s discussion of the Bent case.
You have no reason to say, “I’m sorry.”
Best,
Mark
Thank you Mark!
Sam- I looked at the simulation and I must say it’s very clear cut. And, are most women really that size? I would think most women are a little more “endowed” than whats shown in that simulation. If that were me, he would have had the whole thing. Bent has some pretty big hands too!
Yes, I agree, Diane… even a small “busted” woman like shown in the simulation would have not escaped the hand-over-the-heart touching some of the breast.
When you see Wayne’s hand on his own chest and then the comparison with it going over the “heart” of a small busted girl’s bikini-clad chest… it’s apparent that he probably could not have avoided touching some parts of the breasts of the victims.
The only hope for a defense appeal is whether touching the “fleshy part” is properly considered intimate contact or if touching the nipple or other places is necessary for that consideration. Think of it this way… if men tried touching the “fleshy parts” exposed on girl’s chests wearing clothing now in fashion in public places, like the mall, they would be arrested for indecency, that’s just our “community standard.”
And, there is Mew Mexico legal precedence which can be applied to conclude that a jury is allowed to decide, merely based on community standards, what should be considered an intimate part in a sexual indecency case. So an appeal based on those grounds might not have much hope.
— Sam
Sam, thanks from me for posting that picture again, of the hand over the breast.
It reminded me of an old Arabian proverb about a camel who has to stand outside the tent in the cold while his master is inside where it is nice and warm. As I remember the story, at first, the camel just wants to stick his head in.
If the camel were to take the stand in his defense, this is what he would say. I only meant to touch the part between the breasts, the non-sexual parts.
That’s probably what he did with the other girls too, at first–only touched them between their sexual parts. But then if they couldn’t help but start to imprudently wiggle a little, his plan would be thwarted and more would take place, which he now has admitted.
Given Wayne’s grandiose impressions of himself to the world, that court scene with Wayne standing there with his face on, demonstrating that he only put his hand between sexual places is amazing. To the jury, I am sure it said it all.
There’s another issue that I have regarding the testimony at the trial and where his hand was that I found very interesting. Below is Healed’s testimony regarding seeing him naked:
Ms. Montoya: Have you seen him naked?
L.S.: No.
Ms. Montoya: So, that’s gonna cause some confusion. Ok, because I think people think when you said he didn’t have clothes on, that you saw him naked.
L.S.: It was dark and there was no lights on.
Then Wayne’s testimony:
Wayne Bent: Yes.
(Bent stands up)
In L.S.’s case, it was straight up and down like this. If I put my hand on the sternum of somebody clothed, I’m not always so careful where I put my hand. But in her case, I was being exceptionally careful, not to enter into any kind of sexuality with her.
If it was too dark for her to see his nakedness then how could he see enough to be “exceptionally careful” where he was placing his hand? I’m completely confused.
JEREMIAH 3:3
As I first saw the case of my old friend Wayne Bent in the news and began to follow the case through trial, sentencing and jail time, if there was one text more than another that kept coming to mind, it was this one.
“Jeremiah 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore’s forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”
Wayne wonders why his god, the voice, just leaves him there to twiddle his fingers. He keeps trying to figure out what he should be doing, or not doing. But his voice, it won’t tell him. Fasting and threatening suicide is the best he can come up with. Still, the showers of refreshing (blessings) do not come. They still won’t give him what he wants.
Ever since his misbehavior with women, for the world, he has put on his proudest front. He looks people straight in the face, as if it is them who is thinking evil and sexual thoughts. He did this in court. We have just seen the picture of him demonstrating for the court how he had carefully placed his hand between the sexual parts.
This is what Jeremiah 3:3 is about. It’s about this kind of a forehead—one that looks straight at you and without shame.
We have often seen those who when caught and taken into custody and are brought outside in front of the cameras. They are often ashamed and bow their heads as they proceed. They cover their foreheads and faces with their hands or their coats as best they can. Jeremiah 3:3 is not about them, but about those who are proud of their foolishness and willing to stare you down with it, forehead to forehead.
Casidi
That is a very good point and so subtle that it could be easily overlooked because as much as I went over the text that never jumped out at me. It is very interesting that to her it was to dark to see if Wayne had cloths on,yet there was enough light for an old man that wears glasses to be able to see clearly enough to tell exactly where and how he placed his hand.
I am no expert and will never claim to be but to me that is very cut and dry. Next you add in the pictures Sam used in his example and even an idiot can clearly see Wayne clearly got a pretty good thrill feel. Then Diane clearly stated the fact that most women have larger bust than those shown giving our old perverted messiah quite the handful of flesh.
I hope our Jury member will chime in on this because his/her actions and thoughts are the ones that convicted Wayne on the 3 counts. We can clearly read and see what was said in the court room but no one but the jury members knows what the deciding factors and elements of the case were that brought them to the choices they made in the convictions.
What Sam states about witness selection sounds fine to me, but what I understand about this case was also the fact that Judge Baca as an elected official on the bench was going to be leaving that elected office at the end of December 2008, and that there had to be an adjustment in the witness selection in order for there to be enough time for the case to be heard and settled before he left office. The State and the defense both had to cut witnesses so the case would fit in the time slot alloted. Prudence Welch was cut, as also was some of Wayne’s “Character” witnesses. I, on the most part was basically “unheard” of during the trial witness selection, as the state knew very little about my history in the Strong City saga, and seriously what could I say? Prudence had the history and the website, so she was selected, and rightfully was qualified. The state did not know that there was a former LOR member and witness avialable (Me) who was there on the land when all the events happened. It had also been suggested that I was still a little fond of Wayne Bent at the time, and maybe anything that I could add would have been confusing. Milton Bernheisel has been saying that I am a fence rider. Wayne had wrote quite a while back stating that I was “luke warm”. I can’t say one way or another why they believed so, afterall I did leave the church, and that act should have sent a clear message to all of them. I just still love all of them, and want them to be free from all of this present madness. I probably would have been willing to give my old friend Wayne a hug as well, as did John Sayer. National Geographic had filmed alot of interviews with me as well for their trial documentary. I was the only former member of the cult would was at the trial and who also was present on the Land when Wayne lain with the underage girls. I beleive I was interviewed about 11 times. But they had chosen to not use any of it, as I had an upcoming divorce pending, and they did not want to have anything from the documentary brought up that would negatively affect Lillian’s divorce from me. I talk about this in my book. I believe people are smart enough to read what I write, and can figure out where I stand on the issues.
I agree with Sam on the issues at trial and why most of the witnesses weren’t called.
On the issue of time, most judges set a specific amount of time for a trial based on the charges, how many witnesses each side intends to call, and other motions that were filed pretrial. Many of those motions were decided pretrial.
In this particular case, 2 things were in play. First, there was a long list of possible witnesses on both sides. Many of those were character witnesses for the defendant and probably for the jury’s sake, the judge limited those types of witnesses because they would likely say the same thing. I know that many of them wrote letters in his defense before the trial but I don’t know if the Judge read them all.
Before a trial and usually before a jury is seated, the judge meets with the attorneys for both sides, sometimes to try to resolve the case, other times to lay the rules on the line. I imagine each side was limited to a certain number and type of witness not for time but because they would be repetitious.
The second thing in play was as Sam said, the religion aspect. The defense wanted it to be a trial against religious freedom, the DA wanted to keep it just to the facts at hand. I also think the Judge wanted to keep it to the charges and not about religion. These charges were not about religion although the defense certainly wanted them to be but there were 4 charges and not one of them mentioned religion. The legal precedent in NM that Sam mentioned, State v. Trevino, gave the jury the right to decide the charges in part on their “community standard” of decency and propriety. It doesn’t say based on your religious beliefs.
Barbie came into play to show parts of a female body trying to counteract that legal precedent. The problem there was that Barbie was clothed in a very modest bikini and the girls weren’t clothed in anything. Big difference!
If Prudence or Johnny had been put on the stand and told the jury about SC and what had been happening over the years, not limiting it to just the 2 girls, it would have been more likely to become a religious freedom trial. By keeping it to expert witnesses about sexual grooming, mind control, etc. religion was for the most part kept out of the trial. And Bent sealed the deal when he testified and showed how he touched people on the sternum.
At sentencing, many of the witnesses who had not testified were able to speak up for or against the defendant, including the defendant.
So I really don’t think time was an issue. The trial started Dec. 8th, the jury came back with their verdict on Dec. 15. If needed, there were still at least 10 days for the trial to continue. As it was, the Judge kindly permitted Bent to go home before sentencing. That’s not always the case.
I also think that if Bent had read Mark’s quote for today (really good one Mark) and not written his hateful letters, not gone on and off fasts and been a more model inmate he might be at home now waiting for his appeal to go through the legal system instead of fasting in Los Lunas on Ensure.
How many days?
How many days until he gets sick of (uncomfortable with) drinking Ensure and figures out a reason or the voice tells him to start taking those trays again? Then when he does, will the count have to start over for trays? Or will it just run on, like it did when he started taking the Ensure? How heavy should he be before the count is restarted?
AG asks state Supreme Court to deny Bent appeal
KOB reports:
New Mexico’s attorney general is asking the state Supreme Court to deny an appeal request for imprisoned cult leader Wayne Bent.
Bent is serving a 10 year prison sentence for molesting a teen follower on his Union County compound.
Bent is now asking the Supreme Court to consider his appeal.
The AG’s office says both a district and appellate court denied appeal requests, and there is no new evidence showing Bent should be entitled to one.
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1196002.shtml?cat=520
I wonder if this is what they are waiting for and until there is word Wayne will continue fasting on Ensure?
Jan
New News!
Just posted on KOB online:
“New Mexico’s attorney general is asking the state Supreme Court to deny an appeal request for imprisoned cult leader Wayne Bent.
Bent is serving a 10 year prison sentence for molesting a teen follower on his Union County compound.
Bent is now asking the Supreme Court to consider his appeal.
The AG’s office says both a district and appellate court denied appeal requests, and there is no new evidence showing Bent should be entitled to one.”
It’s interesting! I’ve been watching the court sites and no rulings have been published since August. But it seems that maybe the Appeals court ruled on more than just an Appeal Bond.
Bent is 4th from the bottom on the Supreme Courts “Filed and Pending Writs of Certiorari.” They work from the bottom up.
Link to KOB has been added at top. Thanks Jan & KM.
Thank you Mark! Don’t know if you saw in an earlier post today, but I love today’s quote! Stephanie Barron was a very smart woman!
They’re not going to consider his appeal seriously as long as he continues to act crazy. Maybe it’s not an act, and he truly needs to be in a psychiatric facility.
I cannot imagine living on ensure (crap in a can) for the rest of my life. I would rather give up being vegan than drink that.
[i]If it was too dark for her to see his nakedness then how could he see enough to be “exceptionally careful” where he was placing his hand? I’m completely confused.[/i]
Night vision goggles? lol
Braille?
VOX!
He should have used “hands free” VOX (voice operated xmit/relay). Used in radio communications many years. Voice activates transmitter to relay your messages so can remain hands-free, not touch anything!
Perhaps this voice he’s been following forgot to tell him how this could be done and he wouldn’t be where he is now and for the next 110.763 months.
But never mind “just” sternum touching. Doesn’t it “arouse” anyone’s anger upon hearing of this 67 yr old naked man, alone in his bedroom with these young totally innocent and very naieve underaged naked girls, in the dark, between sheets, face to face, toe to toe, with him on top of them for any reason/purposes, no matter what?!
With Mr Bent, while naked together on top of these girls, Newtons law of gravity applied and parts is parts, how can we think otherwise?
Is this legal in New Mexico or anywhere else in America? If so, then lets change this, make this Class A Felony: Crime against a child!
Why wasn’t Mr Bent charged for this as well as the women “grooming” these young girls with very inappropriate writings?! They are just as guilty, if not more so, because I feel Mr Bent mentally insane.
Lets examine the logistics alone:
Did not his intimate/private parts make contact close or near these young girls private/intimate areas when Mr Bent claims to perform these “healings” while maintaining greatest deference and utmost respect for their bodies and souls.
Are we to believe he remained focused on healing while never having one single sexual thought and that his body simply did not have normal God given reactions and feelings. Really? Honest to God?
Are we supposed to be so stupid and fooled in believing otherwise?
(Jeff, I truly want to hear what you have to say about this, if you’ll be honest, tell the truth here.)
Ask any mother of boys, she’ll tell you what often happens while changing his diaper! I’m not talking about the faucet end of this either.
It is just a God given normal reaction. Is how God made little boys.
To me and many others must admit this is all so terribly wrong! Even if both were fully dressed, in the light of day, surrounded by entire LOR congregation, with a sleeping bad between them for any reason healing or holy, just is not right!
I stand by my convictions that this is ugly, nasty, filthy, sexually explicit practice for any male be on top of any female outside marrital relations under Gods eyes. I will never accept this as moral or Godly.
But is what Mr Bent and those decieved followers wants us to think.
I will never accept and would never happen under my roof. But, if it ever did, then the person doing this would suffer the consequences and I’d carry out my own law and order.
In my younger years, I served as a Sheriffs Deputy and I live in Oregon way out in the country.
There’s lots to be feared about protective mothers in my “neck of the woods”!
Around here, “Fasting” takes on a whole new meaning and “Ensure” would make ones flannels a bit messy, with or without those NG tubes!
And as for me and our house, We shall serve The Lord!
I remember when I was a little girl and was walking to school one morning when a man about WB’s age stepped out on his porch wearing not a stitch of clothing on his body. I also remember him smiling at me as I walked on.
When I got to school I told the teacher about it and she went into action calling my mom and the police.
After they arrested him for indecent exposure, he told the police that he had done nothing wrong because he didn’t touch me and that there is nothing wrong with seeing the naked body.
They ended up fining the man and releasing him back into the same neigbhorhood where he pulled this same antic a few more times with different children before he ended up in jail for a couple of years.
The one thing he continued to hold on to was that he wasn’t in the wrong because he never touched the children he exposed himself to.
WB kind of reminds me of that old dirty man who feels he did nothing wrong because …..oh, he never touched anyone wrongfully.
It is still damaging and the incident I speak of happened when I was in kindergarten. All of these years later I barely remember much about my first year in school but I do remember what the man did to me.
He stole away a piece of my innocence even though he never laid a hand on me.
There’s nothing wrong with the naked body, but it’s what you do with it and how you present it especially with children. WB just doesn’t get that though.
“With Mr Bent, while naked together on top of these girls, Newtons law of gravity applied and parts is parts, how can we think otherwise?”
You raise good points and without going too far here, I daresay it must have been a feat for an old man to carefully position and hold himself up or away from the victim’s private areas. And the whole scenario where Healed claims this took place in a room so dark she could not see his nakedness, it really amazes me that he managed at his age to avoid, if even accidentally touching the private areas. And this is probably why these little stories didn’t wash with the jury. It’s just plain common sense.