Update: High court rejects sect leader’s bond petition, (KOB-TV/AP, 10/27/09)
Update: Attorney John McCall Responds to the AG (strongcity.info, 10/19/09)
(Note from Mark: This development in the Wayne Bent case was addressed with an “update” link in a previous post, A message from Jeff Bent. However, I thought it would be best to provide this separate post so that new links/resources specific to this development can be conveniently located here. This approach also provides readers with an opportunity to comment specifically on the Attorney General’s response to Bent’s petition. A pdf file of the AG’s response can be downloaded at a link provided below.)
“The State disputes any contention that Petitioner’s memorandum and the record are ‘uncontested’ or that there is ‘overwhelming evidence’ that Petitioner is not a flight risk, is not a danger to society and has raised substantial non-frivolous questions in the appeal which could result in the reversal of the convictions.” -from State of New Mexico’s response to Wayne Bent’s petition for an appeal bond
1. News release from NM Attorney General (October 16, 2009)
2. NM AG’s response to Bent’s petition for appeal bond (pdf / 11 pages)
I found a very interesting remark in the letter displayed on the strongcity.info site, written by Bent’s appeal attorney, John McCall. You can find the link at the top in the post by Mark Horner… in other words, the start of the topic we are discussing.
What would be amusing about that (if it were not so pathetic) is that his client is a man who claimed to have been taken over by an angel, who then spoke through him and who forced him to have sex with, first, three women, and then later, at least six more.
Maybe this quote by Wayne Bent, writing as Micheal the Archangel, referring to himself (Wayne) in the third person, might allow John McCall to realize that perhaps Wayne fits the very definition of dementia which he mentioned:
Goodness, when anyone claims that he is possessed by an entity, which is actually speaking and writing separate of the will and direction of the possessed individual and that this entity is commanding his behavior… that’s a clear example of the very insane condition which John McCall described.
— Sam
Alright, I’ve done away w/the thumbs. Some of you wrote to me saying that you feel that the thumbs would negatively impact the quality of the comments as well as the open flow of discourse and exchange of ideas here. In short, I feel the benefit (an additional way to interact w/this blog) of the thumbs probably doesn’t outweigh the feature’s potential negative impact (discouraging some voices from expressing their points of view here).
I have opted, though, to limit the comment period for all posts on this blog. Comments will remain active/open for 7 days, then close.
Thank you, everyone, for your participation on this blog.
Ron said: How many finally saw through Wayne’s BS?
Many of us ex’s, having been condemned and shunned by LOR only became aware of this episode of sexual profligation after they came out of the closet and began flaunting things to the whole world, condemning any who would not consent. Those of us who came to realized that things were not quite right in LOR land before Wayne’s attempted grand finale, were largely motivated to separate by the activities engaged in by the Miltons of the group,(maybe there is some culpability Milton). Wayne defended, protected and directed from his inner sanctum, these adoring automatons, using their prostituted souls to conduct his dirty work. To this day, it is demonstrated, that they would at the slightest suggestion, participate in the vilest of actions, justifying it by any means necessary and call it holy. They have no regard for the pain and damage they might inflict upon others and Yes Milton, I for one find this very “disgruntling”. You can pay for expensive representation, do all the image polishing you want and disparage those who point out the blemishes but you can never undo your many ridiculous activities that tell the real story of the Travesser odyssey. Having said that, you can take comfort in knowing that there is probably some babylonish court that might be in harmony with your moral ideals. But it will be costly to find it, and your little gig will never again have the beauty that it once did. Do you know why? Because you chased all the beauty away.
Sam, you and McCall (Wayne’s attorney) make a really good case for dementia on the part of Wayne Bent. You have shown from Wayne’s own words about himself, what his attorney was talking about. Perhaps McCall will prefer not to make that particular argument again.
If someone told us they saw or heard an angel on their way, we might be inclined to believe them, especially if the angel helped them, or saved them from danger in some way. But if that angel comes back again later that day, and then keeps coming back with more and more instruction until he/it is telling you how to live with ever more repeated visits, with whom to consummate, and many other things against your better judgment, this is quite another thing.
And then if this person with his angel asks you to believe the angel too, follow its instructions for now it lives inside you, and when you speak, listen to it say to get naked with you in your bed, this is the style of dementia to which the attorney McCall referred.
Such a demented person might otherwise know how to eat, sleep, speak and look nice. He might know how to go around as if magnanimously, messiah like, blessing those who approve of him. To these, he may know how to appear humble as he accepts their accolades. He may be skilled at making others appear more demented than he.
He may have minions like Milton and Co who are willing to help him in all such endeavors in turning reality into the opposite of what it is. But it is still dementia. I would consider it worse than those who lose their minds in some other more “traditional” way.
I keep getting new insights and information from this post. I think it is a shame to limit the comments to a 7 day time period. It takes time for these little gems of information to come out. Johnny and Wisperwind’s latest posts would not appear and give insight if you had already implemented the 7 day policy. That being said, this is Mark’s blog, and I have enjoyed the comments of thoughtful folks, so however you handle it, you have my respect and gratitude.
Thank you Ron for saying that, as I have been sitting here trying to figure out how we went from post location, to thumbs up or down to limiting the days of the thread. Could we vote on this? Sometimes there are days in a row with travel that I am not even able to read here let alone post and I might miss out on a topic all together. This subject still seems to be so interesting to so many of us and once in awhile we even get one of Wayne’s supporters responding I am just not sure why one would want to put a limit on the time for a thread. It would seem the limit would either be when the posts go way off topic, disintegrate as that one thread did awhile back or there have been no new thoughts posted for several days. So I respectfully agree with Ron and wish you would not close a thread after 7 days.
I give a huge thank you to Mark for having this blog for us to discuss the issues and I understand that after 300+ comments, going back to read and moderate can be a huge amount of time that Mark could otherwise be using as free time. Was reordering and thumbs a way to moderate easier? I could definitely see both used that way.
Perhaps Jan can re-open the forum that was associated with Sam’s site and at day 7 create a new thread titled the same as the title here and post the link to the forum for additional discussion? Just an idea. :)
Hey Johnny,
In response to your last post, I would just like say that I think I know how you feel. I too was recently attacked in the same way you describe (sucker punched) and no one said anything about removing his post against me, nor his subsequent ones either. And I did not call for them to be removed. But when I began to respond to him, to several more of his posts, then I was told I was off topic. His post was off topic; it was an attack and I wondered why I was not granted the same freedom as he. I wondered why if his false attacks were allowed to stand, how were my responses to them not acceptable? At the time, everybody was posting “off topic” whenever they wanted.
That said, I hope you don’t leave this forum.
I don’t want to sound stupid, but I’m confussed about the whole seven virgin thing. Didn’t Wayne drop two of the underage girls out of the original seven, and replace them with women, who were married to other members? How did they revert back to virgins? Is this part of his dogma? Does he make he rules up as he goes?
I recall when Jesus was riding into Jerusalem on Passover, and he paused and wept over the city, as he remembered her once high calling, and then seeing what she had become, and what she was getting ready to do to him, and to everything which was pure, holy, and just. He knew it had to happen, and was willing to indure all the indignity of the season that was going to be thrust upon Him. Yet He still wept over the city. When I read Whisperwinds post, I was moved to tears as well. Why, because I remembered the original beauty of the LOR, and what it stood for. Yes, the beauty is now gone, and she has chased away all the voices that warn and reprove from within. The true voice of prophecy is gone from her, and she has become as tinkling brass, full of dead mans bones, and may I say a cage full of every unclean and hateful bird. Their words all reflect hatred for their fellow man, this planet, and any who are not in their camp and mindset. Their deluded message is now all about creating pity and support for their leader who has perfected to a Tee the biblical lesson of, “Whatsoever a man sows, so shall he also reap.” This has been Wayne’s life since the late 1970′s… but he refuses to acknowledge it in his own life now as manifested by current events. He says he is in prison for keeping the Sabbath. I differ to disagree with him. Ask the simple,lowly prison guard watching Wayne, why Wayne in in his keep, and he will tell you plainly. The legal paperwork begs to differ. Not once was the Sabbath brought up in the court trial. It was not about religion. It was about Wayne breaking a State of New Mexico law… a law made to protect all of it’s citizens. Wayne had his day in court, the jury heard the case and decided it based on the evidence alone, and Wayne was convicted, and sent to prison for his crime against children. How could it have been any other way? Wayne had the power all along to have prevented all of this from happening, but he pressed on hard with his agenda… and Strong City is surprised and unsettled? Spare me, I was there in the room when Wayne asked for everyone’s permission and blessing to bring the underage girls into the picture. Everyone sat there dumbfounded, as not one person said one word to protect these two little girls from themselves and this monster being laid out for them. Even I kept my mouth shut, and for that I am ashamed. Strong City thinks deliverance is coming for their leader. Satan tried to keep the Angels of God from coming to roll away the stone at Jesus’s Tomb, but all the evil forces fled when only one Angel came forth to roll away the stone and called forth the Son of God from the Tomb. Jeff Bent said that it is in the bank, but he must be referring to something else in the bank account, as he is going to need a whole lot of money to pay the legal system to get them to do anything for Wayne Bent’s comfort. Strong City truly will be paying for the comforts of a few lawyers, as they turn the wheels of justice just slow enough to drain the bank accounts of Wayne Bent. Justice for convicted inmates is not cheap, to say the least, especially justice for those who are really guilty of the crime. What a sad end for my old friend, and yes, I stand and weap between the porches for the once pure and holy city called the LOR. She has forgotten everything that we once stood for, and she will soon be no more. And those within her who has allowed and encouraged the most of this deception will suffer the most in the end. This is just how heaven and earth works together. Justice and Mercy mingled together, but in no wise will the guilty escape their just rewards. God is fair.
Hi Mr. Mead,
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me that we exchanged some respectful e-mails regarding one specific comment made by you that I felt crossed the line due to its sexual content.
As I recall, you offered that it did cross the line, then added that it wasn’t typical of your posting style and you even apologized.
You were also concerned that your comment kept appearing on the blog when you visited this site. You said you wanted it taken down. I tried to assure you that the comment had been taken down. I suggested that you delete any temporary internet files and cookies in your browser, then refresh the page.
If all of that left you w/the impression that I was attempting to minimize or even silence your point of view, I am sorry. That was never my aim. In fact, I thought I was doing a somewhat decent job of maintaining the integrity of the discussion while also assisting you concerning your requests.
You are not the only one I have tried to assist away from the light of these comment sections. From the apparently well-liked to the perceived (by some) villains who comment here, I have attempted to provide an attentive ear and quality customer service, if you will.
To Johnny Miller, David Mead and anyone else who might feel the moderating here by me might be uneven: I take no offense, at all. In fact, it has been uneven. But I do not feel this is due to any bias I have against anyone posting here. It comes down to time available to me for moderating.
Some days, there isn’t much, at all. Some days, there is a lot. Some days, I’m checking in way too much when I should be engaged in more important priorities.
So yes, the refereeing hasn’t been even-handed. But please don’t take it personally.
And just in case anyone is so kind as to be inclined to offer to moderate on my behalf, thank you, in advance, but the answer is no.
As always, thank you for your interest in this blog and for your contributions to it.
Faith, keeping everyone confused I believe was part of the plan. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. Been there, done that.
Mark I have no gripes about your efforts or fairness of your blog. My feathers were ruffled by a certain person, and I felt I needed to speak against it. I was not needing any help from the administrative arm of the forum, but rather an united effort and encouragement of the spirit represented here to deal with the apparent unjustices rendered by some who do post on here on occassion. Something about an united front comes to mind now. In many ways, the forum polices itself, and it does that quite well, but theres nothing like a little spice to heat up the pot of stew every now and then. This is probably the best forum out there about this case, and Strong City avoids Prudence’s forum like the plague. I should know, as I am one of it’s moderators. All I do there is knock off the cobwebs. It is practically dead. Where else would we go? Please continue as you see fit. I love Beyond90Seconds. It is a God sent.
Hello Mark,
You wrote:
If all of that left you w/the impression that I was attempting to minimize or even silence your point of view, I am sorry. That was never my aim. In fact, I thought I was doing a somewhat decent job of maintaining the integrity of the discussion while also assisting you concerning your requests.
No Mark you need not to be corrected on any of this. On these things to which you refer here, we were in perfect agreement.
In my last post, I was writing to Johnny about a prior incident, the one where the same person charged me falsely, and of course, off topic. Not the one to which you refer, and actually, I don’t recall as to how you were involved in it one way or the other. In fact, I think you made no comment. But thanks for the clarification. The moderation has not been taken personally by me.
By the way, like Johnny says, this is about the only active site on this subject that I know of now so I hope you keep up the good work. I would not like to see it go down.
The fact that a few from Strong City or some of their believers once in awhile come and post here shows what a fair and balanced forum this is. (Credit to Mark) And the self policing most of the time works quite well, considering what a volatile topic this actually is.
I do agree with Ron, Hope and a few others that creating a specific time limit for discussion just is a bit unusual as one never can determine what might happen at a moments notice to bring in a whole slew of new and exciting posts. And while Casidi poses an interesting alternative, that was not my forum but Mr. Redman’s and he seems content now to just post here occasionally.
So I hope Mark might reconsider the seven day limit.
Johnny, so it is fair to call Michael Travesser, insane, crazy, demented, etc. but it is NOT a personal attack against him? You should carefully consider these words as a personal attack because by your own standards he was not found insane, crazy or having dementia in a court of law. You seem to think that the things I said are a personal attack against you, but what you and others say against Michael are not a personal attack? I plainly hear mockery and all sorts of accusations and suppositions that have no basis in fact. Aren’t they personal attacks?
Johnny would you appreciate a site that was expressly dedicated to your sins and exposing them all for the world to see? Where everything you ever said or did was held under a microscope and scrutinized over and over for any seeming discrepencies? Johnny you know that I know things about you of a personal nature that you might not want exposed here, but I remain silent. I only pointed out that you once believed in the God of Michael Travesser, but now call Him ungodly. Seems that when the God of Heaven puts the shoe on your foot that you try to put on Michael that it gets a little tight and you want to rise up in resistance.
Johnny I am not leveling any kind of personal attack against you. I am just pointing out that you personally were given what the consummation was just like we all were. Everyone had to appear before Michael individually personally with him alone and tell him what it was. Remember? He said at that time that if you did not believe in it that you should flee instantly and he would even help pay for your way out. He said he would help you hook up your trailer personally. Remember? You were given what the consummation was and stayed on. Why?
Michael Travesser has always been open and up front about all things that he has done. He has never done things in secret like so many do. If there was something to hide, he was sure not one to do that.
I might add here that everyone will be held accountable for what they do or do not do with the knowledge they have. Those who were with the LOR at one time know more than those who never have been there. Johnny just happens to have been there the longest and thus has rejected more than most. Yes he once sang praises to the God of Heaven for the consummation, but now he is calling it ungodly.
Milton, I’m assuming your last paragraph about accountability applies to yourself as well as Johnny and others?
Philippians 2:9-11 (New International Version)
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
I have a few questions.
If the bank accounts were to drain out, what would happen to SC and some of the women who live there that do not work? In the past some such as Danielle and Esther said they wanted nothing to do with the outside world. What would these people live on? They are young and healthy so i don’t think they would meet the criteria for state benefits.
Why are some people who live in SC taking state benefits when they believe the state is the beast?
If WB does not get out of prison, what will become of SC? Will everyone disband and move on in life or will a new leader be elected to continue on? Would the teachings change? Would women be allowed to take husbands? Johnny you were mentioning your pain upon seeing the changes that happened with SC. Do you feel that there is a chance it could ever return to the way it was?
Thanks.
Milton, Wayne’s own websites were dedicated to his sins and he exposed them for all the world to see. I guess he likes it.
I do not think many people realize exactly how wealthy this group is. The Bent Trust is quite large and even with legal fees I believe there is no reason for concern.
So far they have managed for the last ten months to still see Wayne as their spiritual leader. How much longer that can last is anyone’s guess. But with his fast continuing he manages to be the focus and that seems to be part of their ongoing religion. No question their lives continue to revolve around their messiah, Michael.
Milton, I re-posted my original question with a little clarification, but you still haven’t answered. I understand that you may not want to write a novel or speak for Wayne or Jeff, so I’ll ask differently.
Do you believe God respects, ordained and set up earthly government and man’s laws? Y/N
If yes, do you believe that God respects the “beast” which in the Scriptures represents civil government as stated by Wayne? Y/N
If no, are you stating that you do not agree with Wayne’s statement in the appeal bond? Y/N
Do you believe that you have to abide by state laws even if God puts it on your heart to do otherwise? Y/N
If yes, then do you agree with Wayne’s conviction (not his sentence) that was brought about by man’s laws and governmental process ? Y/N
If no, are you stating that you do not agree with Wayne’s statement in the appeal bond? Y/N
Feel free to elaborate, but for people who don’t know or “get” all the scripture representations the LOR uses, such as myself, please start any explanation with a “yes” or “no”. Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding if you are agreeing or rejecting points when you use a bunch of passages from the bible and then add your own (titles) to the stories.
It is really amazing to see how far out and complicated man has made God, when the truth is pretty simple. God is ineffable and indefinable. For some reason, many people want to tell you what God wants or what He thinks. Those are the people who should scare you. Religions, denominations, fundamentalist, and extremists are really just serving their own ego. And Cults like Strong City, where people will cut off their own mothers, fathers, and children because they want salvation are only serving their own ego. Fortunately, I really believe and hope that God is big enough to forgive us for being so gullible.
THE FORMER GLORY
There has been some talk here of late about the former or original glory of LOR. Well, I was part of that as everybody knows and so I think that I can speak to it.
By comparison with the last 20 years or so, I suppose it is correct, the original glory has departed. As far as I knew, it was never rumored that anyone was behaving like Wayne began to do after the “glory” departed.
But still, what was the original glory? It too was only the glory of man. By comparison to other churches and churchmen, we thought we looked pretty good. This was our view (judgment) of ourselves, not how God looked at us.
In reality, we were just keeping the laws (Ten Commandments and health laws etc) a little better than other churchmen. We were a little more serious about it than they. We knew this and it made us feel really good about ourselves—it was our glory as it were. We felt that God would appreciate our “successful” efforts toward obedience and that when he made up His jewels, they would be made up from such as us. From who else? Certainly not from among the law breakers.
Would you like to get a good look at our experience—what is now referred to as the former glory? You can. Just become a Mormon, an Adventist or a Baptist. A Catholic or a Jew. A Hindu Guru with flowers on your lap. A Buddhist on the way to Buddahood or join whatever group you want and accept what they teach. Follow their particular messiahs, popes and prophets, just do it with more vigor and sincerity than the others in it before you. Keep more rules and regulations than others. Be thinner and you will receive more respect. That alone will comprise a large part of your glory. All these groups have offshoots or independents that try to do it better than the group from which they came.
The gods of all these groups all want you to keep their laws, better and better, more and more as best you can. Doing this, it is understood that your reward will be great. This is their glory and LOR was no different.
As I rereading my questions above I thought of something that could reveal the true nature of all this. I’m not sure if the LOR allows it in their religion, but it would be easy for Wayne to prove his innocence to “the world”, not the law, if he was able to take a lie detector test live on the web or videotaped. I know they aren’t admissible in court but it sure wouldn’t hurt his appeal if he came out with flying colors. Just a random thought I had.
Hi Mark – no problems from me. I’m just dang happy that we can blog again!
My husband works 2nd shift so I always fall asleep in bed with the TV on, HLN channel. I woke up at 3:30 this morning to hear they found little 7 year old Somer Thompson dead in a garbage dump. In a freakin garbage dump!? It seems like every week it’s someone new. The news said the Thompson’s had over 60+ registered sex offenders in they’re surrounding neighborhood. That is HUGE and that is a PROBLEM!! I’m tired of hearing about these predators hurting and harming our children. It’s wrong and it breaks my heart.
I feel any sexual predator including Bent should have life in prison without the possibility of parole ever. We need to protect our children and these predators should never ever be allowed to see the light of day again. As far as I’m concerned, Bent can rot in that hole and die but only after a few of the other prisoners have let him know what it feels like. He’s a scam! Lock them all up and throw away the key. I’m a mother and a grandmother and if anyone ever harmed a hair on either of them I swear to God….
Seeing that sweet little girls face on the TV this morning really upsets me. When does it stop? When do we stand up and say ENOUGH? I’m sorry for sounding so harsh and then again I’m not because that’s how I really feel at this moment. I just don’t understand.
Diane,
Thank you for these thoughts. Not many have the courage to speak the truth in this manner.
You wrote:
“We need to protect our children and these predators should never ever be allowed to see the light of day again. As far as I’m concerned, Bent can rot in that hole and die but only after a few of the other prisoners have let him know what it feels like.”
But Diane, this is not what Wayne has done to others. This is not how he does it to the women he has molested. He does not just molest them as other molesters do it; he makes them like it.
For this to happen to him in prison, the head guy, the meanest inmate, the one all the others look up to (fear) would over time, carefully “cultivate” Wayne’s mind to trust him. To like what he was about to do to him. And then when he did it, have Wayne to say how nice it was and get undressed and want some more and write about it on the internet. Attach some texts to it and say how he first protested but then realized it was really God who came up with the idea.
If it happened that way to Wayne, in prison, there would be a comparison to what Wayne does to others.
Thank you David. I understand what your saying but if I remember correctly, Bent said he was molested twice as a child. Victims of molestation either become molesters themselves or protectors. How do know what he did with those women and passed it off as a consummation? I’m not buying it.
I just had to turn off my tv and turn on my computer because I can’t listen to the news anymore. My heart is breaking for the Thompson family right now and my previous post was an anger filled passionate rant. How anyone can take a sweet child and dump her in the trash……
Distorted logic
Diane, that sort of "get-a-rope," frontier days, mentality is in direct opposition to a more noble system of jurisprudence in which those who commit minor offenses are not punished with the same severe penalty as those who have committed more heinous crimes. Jean Val Jean in 1860 in France was sentenced to twenty years of hard labor for stealing a loaf of bread (chronicled in Les Miserables). Lee Otis Johnson in 1968 in Texas was given a 30 year sentence for possession of a single marijuana joint (he died in prison in 2002). Both of those sentences grew out of the (seemingly justifiable) outrage of law abiding people who had become incensed at other criminals flaunting the law committing very serious offenses, such as grand larceny or dealing dangerous drugs. Grave instances of both of those categories of crime do deserve incarceration reflective of severity of the offense, but lesser offenses which, although classified similarly, should not receive the same punishments. Those types of crimes are no longer handled that way. Our society has progressed.
But, recently, because of increased public awareness of the appalling crimes committed by child raping sadistic murderers, there has been a trend, like the marijuana sentencing done in the sixties, to give the maximum penalty for all sex crime offenders in spite of vast differences in the nature of their various acts or harm to their victims. As in the days of Jean Val Jean, if the category is particularly repugnant to the general public, then legislators and judges are fueled to make examples out of the most minor offenders . Your reaction, which you defend as being spawned from righteous indignation is typical of those who would paint every offender with the same brush. You join a growing chorus of those who now demand that all (in your words) "have life in prison without the possibility of parole ever."
Wayne Bent’s 18 year sentence is characteristic of such a trend, produced by the loudly voiced opinions of a misguided public which reasons that destroying the civil rights of a few individuals accused of minor sexual crimes can be justified, because examples will be made and a “greater good” will be achieved. The distorted thinking is that severely punishing even minor offenders will achieve a loftier purpose by acting as a deterrent to potential acts by the more diabolical brutal sex murderers and rapists.
We’ve come a long way from the days when it was considered appropriate to stone to death a woman taken in adultery. Sentiments like you have expressed do nothing but push our society back a couple of thousand years. My appeal to you is to always think in terms of what is right, solely based on each individual’s situation and circumstance.
— Sam
As I said before, I am angry, passioniate and heartbroken. It just all came out at once!
Diane ~ Amen sister! My view holds a strict zero tolerance for sex crimes. In spite of what the so called expert said on the witness stand, I truly believe all of the women that he’s had sexual contact with are victims of his predatory nature. I’ve been around too long and seen the progressive nature of his sort of….hmm disorder shall I call it. Yes, I agree with Sam, let us think in terms of what is right. HIS SENTENCE!
Amen Sam Redman!
I certainly too am appalled by the horrible cases we see on the news, of the true sex offenders that do despicable things to precious young girls. One only has to look at the Jaycee Dugard case or read the transcript of the Elizabeth Smart testimony and not be sickened to death.
But please people it is totally unfair to put Wayne Bent in the same category as those individuals. I am sorry I have read the words of these young girls and what happened and I just do not see it as the same. These girls were part of a religious cult and very willingly went to Wayne Bent and wanted or thought they wanted a healing. Some wanted full consummation and they were fully satisfied. I know that A.S. was suicidal afterwords but having listened to her testimony and her safe room interview I just do not think it any way meets the same horrific happenings of Jaycee or Elizabeth Smart.
Just as Sam mentions:
I am appalled with our country for not looking at each case independently of the others and sentence accordingly. Heaven help our country if we revert back to the days of old. Wayne’s sentence of 18 years is sadly as sign of the times. It reminds me of the 6 year old that was originally sentenced to 45 days of Reform School for proudly bringing his Cub Scout place setting to school. Each crime if there even is one needs to be closely examined and sentence accordingly. Eighteen years for Wayne Bent was totally (in my own opinion) way over the top.
Jan
Milton, just a note of clarification for you. When everyone went in to talk to Wayne about the Consumation, I was NOT even living on the Land then. I was living alone in Arizona and I got NO e-mails from anybody. I was even being shunned even when a member in “Good” standing. It’s the LOR way. Out of sight, out of mind. I was working for Glendale Bugas in Tucson setting up their Propane Bulk Tank Division. I knew nothing about anything about the Consumation. I did not have the foggiest clue. You see, I had fallen through the cracks. I never did go in and speak to Wayne at all ever about the consumation. No mind trip for me then. I was spared. Marge Carpenter came up to me after I came back and spilled the beans and told me everything and I never went through any of that selective soul searching mind game. I did tell her though when she asked me what it was all about, but I only spoke to her about Omi. You see, Omi was making Goo Goo eyes at Wayne before I left, so I was able to make a correct guess about her. And I was right. I knew nothing about Jody though. Since I had successfully guessed Omi, Marge quickly told me about Jody as well. It blew me away. I do recall I raised my eyebrows, and sort of smiled, and I said to myself, “Wow’ Wayne has been busy.” I was sort of shocked, but I went with the flow anyhow. I guess I sort of was Grandfathered in. Wayne never called me in and asked me anything… He had other things on his mind then. So apparently no one thought me important enough to pace me through the proper channels. I was a victim of “No Child Left Behind.” I got an “A” anyway, even when I had only earned a “C”. So much for LOR quality control… I thought you should know the truth.
Jean Val Jean was an honest man, not a pervert of any kind. He was looking for work, not living off all that he had taken from his latest converts. His family and baby had no food, he was not made rich with things he had not worked for. When he took the bread, the cries of his baby’s hunger were wringing in his ears. .
Wayne Bent is no Jean Val Jean. To see them as similar, or to mention their crimes as comparable would lead to a gross perversion of justice. Woe to a society that would be so blind.
And also Milton, by the way, being insane, crazy, and demented are not sins in the eyes of God, but rather reasons for His perfect Character to be willing to forgive and receive one as such unto Himself. I have never said that Wayne is lost and going to Hell. I just want him to be real, to be honest, and to get some help. Decisions made in the tomorrows by everybody are still seen by God in the NOW. He sees the finished product, we never do, and my faith is that God is the one who makes the best and most truthful judgements about everything and everyone. That’s why He is the All-knowing One. Men don’t know jack. Plus He also has read the last chapter of the book. It’s just one of those things that God can get away with. The stuff in the middle is boring to Him.
David, you would fail a debate class with your feeble attempt to rebut with your non-sequitur presentation of a “straw man” argument. However, instead of being inept, I sense that you are simply being ingenuous. You knew full well that the comparison was not of Jean Val Jean to Wayne, or Lee Otis Johnson to Wayne, nor the adulterous woman being stoned to Wayne, but instead all those were offered merely as illustrations of punishments being disproportionate to their respective crimes. For my discussion (or debate) with the points Diane made, Wayne’s circumstance and crime stands only in comparison to what punishment will be rightly deserved by the rapist and murderer of little Somer Thompson (whose tragic death is what prompted Diane’s outrage).
As Johnny said once about me (while voicing some disagreement on something I said), “I still like you,”. But, really, David, sometimes you wander a bit off of the logic path.
— Sam
But Sam, there are soooo many varieties of “Logic”. Which one should I choose? I am sooo confused… Just messing with ya… LOL…
Was it a debate Sam, that you thought I was entering into? Did you think me the captain of a high school debate squad? Sorry to disappoint you. Actually, it seems to me that it might be the case that we just disagree on this one point. Not so amazing is it?
Wouldn’t you agree that when a judge or jury look at a particular case, they look at more than just the moment of the crime? Even character witnesses (other people’s opinions) are presented for their evaluation This is why I compared the two men (which you introduced for us) and also their crimes. You did intend to compare them didn’t you, not just the sentences, but also the crimes for which the sentences came? At least I thought that is what you intended.
I accept that you see both crimes as similar (Jean Val Jean’s who stole a loaf of bread for his starving family and Wayne’s) unless I am mistaken. I do not. I see no similarity at all. And I see no need to debate it. We just disagree. I honor your view and comparison but do not share it. Some of your arguments for it are persuasive, for instance when looking at it in a purely technical or forensic manner. I just prefer to look at the larger picture and at all the greater damage done to those involved, something that I think should not be ignored. And as I said, a society that ignores it, does so at it’s own peril. This is not to say that there is no danger of disproportionate sentencing. There is., and I would stand with you on that wherever it might happen, but in this man’s opinion, this is not one of them.
I’m glad you still like me. The feeling is mutual.
While the sexualization of children is not new or rare, it is unacceptable for me to surrender to its malignancy. I think the solution to the case taking place in Florida right now is evident. Wayne’s case is just as evident. A sexual offender who will not or can not comprehend the repugnancy of their behavior is best separated from those who may be vulnerable. Ban him to strong city some say, which would be fine if there was any way you could be assured that a voice, or his witnesses and virgins wouldn’t come along and tell him to do something very esoterical. I think these folks have lost just about any credibility they may have had to be able to rationally govern themselves.
Casidi, I will ask you a couple of questions that will answer the ones you asked.
Moses was given the law of God on two tables of stone. They were written by the finger of God. One of the ten says, “Thou shalt not kill.” Right after receiving those ten commandments he came down off the mountain and is was not long until many of his own countrymen were dead. They were slain by the sword at his command.
Question: Did Moses respect the law of God that he received?
Question: Did Moses break that law in commanding the death of all who disobeyed?
Question: Is it possible that he was really keeping the law, in when he began jdccalling for the death of his own brethren?
Question: What would the newspapers and court system of the Canaanities say? Would they say he was unrespeakul of he very law writtn by the finger of God? Would they possibly call him crazy and say he needed psychiatric care?
The answers to these questions will answer the ones you asked me.
Milton
Milton, Like I said, I don’t “get” your interpretation of the bible and I asked nicely that you not use bible references without answering “Yes” or “No”. Maybe I’m a freaking stupid idiot, but really I don’t understand your INTERPRETATION of the bible passages you reference. Is it really that hard to be honest and straight forward? Do you always need to twist bible passages? How freaking hard is it to type Y-E-S or N-O or are you such a freaking automaton that you can’t speak for yourself? Man, you can’t even follow simple direction.
You know what, never mind, I see you are so completely mind controlled. I’m done with you… nothing you have to say from here on is of any importance in anything because you are a robot just spewing what you want to hear. I actually wanted to hear what *YOU* had to say and you couldn’t even have a single original thought. I pity you.
I have pretty much felt like WB’s sentence was draconian and didn’t fit the crime. But I think I’m starting to slowly change my mind about that. Because he’s never going to believe he did anything to these girls. He’s never going to feel remorseful either. He doesn’t care that he stole their innocence away from them, or alienated and manipulated his own sons’ wife into bed.
All WB can do is sit in prison and worry about his food. FOOD. Which is the LEAST of his troubles. He has created alot of damage and I think he should sit there in prison until he comes to the realization that he what he has done is wrong, and that he should pay for those crimes.
Sure, these girls can move on in their lives, and they can go on to be happy, but there will always be that time in their life that is never erased.
And Diane, I think my jaw dropped when it came on CNN this morning about that precious little girl. I think it too has stirred up some anger me about our children being hurt.
Judge Baca obviously had a good reason for his sentencing of Bent and regardless if we agree with it/him or not, is it really for us to say? And who are we to say what Bent did to these girls was “a minor offense”. These minor offenses will have long lasting effects on the victims. We can sit here and debate it all day long but it isn’t going to change anything and only make people mad at each other.
Anonymous One says: “But I think I’m starting to slowly change my mind about that. Because he’s never going to believe he did anything to these girls. He’s never going to feel remorseful either. He doesn’t care that he stole their innocence away from them, or alienated and manipulated his own sons’ wife into bed. All WB can do is sit in prison and worry about his food. FOOD. Which is the LEAST of his troubles. He has created alot of damage and I think he should sit there in prison until he comes to the realization that he what he has done is wrong, and that he should pay for those crimes.” That is so true and his behavior in court also played a part in his sentencing. Those girls were being groomed by Bent and his lady friends for these consummations, is that not predator behavior?
Sam, do you know what the recidivism rate is in the United States for minor sex crimes? What is the likelihood of the re-offender committing a more serious crime the second or third time around? I believe that sex criminals are destined to strike again. They have a craving disorder and it’s not like an infection that can be cured.
I was so angry yesterday and I posted how I felt, and for that I’m called misguided, a distorted thinker. Every day when I turn on the news or open the paper, a child is missing, a young girl has been raped & killed, celebrity sex scandals, David Letterman, Steve Philips (ESPN), John Edwards affair, Madoff’s cocaine fueled sex parties, etc etc etc. With the exception of the 28 year old Sunday school teacher, Melissa Huckaby, granddaughter of a Baptist Church Pastor, all of these crimes/scandals are committed by men. Obviously men are wired differently than women. I don’t know, I’m not an expert on anything but it sure sickens the hell out of me.
It’s a scary world out there, not safe for women or children to be outside anymore alone. Parents get mad because they’re children are parked in front of the television set, computer, Nintendo, texting, etc. but at least they are safe at home.
Diane, it is a very sad day when people come to the conclusion that men are wired for sexual predation and that a terrible mistake can never have an atonement.
Can people really atone for crimes like that? Wired is just a term that I used. What would you call it then Whisperwind? Is this just normal perverted behavior?
I would attempt to offer some food for thought for my former brethren of the LOR. This for the sake of arguement only. But consider it closely. Wayne has said and Strong City has agreed that Wayne Bent had a special annointing from heaven to be messiah. Wayne has said that he had more right than even a doctor who practices medicine to administer his form of healing to unclothed underage female devoltees and followers. Lets said for arguement sake only that these things are true, accepted and known by all men. Wayne Bent was innocent of everything, everybody knew it and business goes on as normal. Along comes another ordained minister of the gospel with over 20 years experience as a respected pastor, lets choose his background, lets say a Morman, or a Southern Babtist. He leaves his former church, forms a cult with about 50 or so members, purchases land in Union county in New Mexico. He does a study on the Song of Solomon, takes 2 Witnesses who leave their husbands and familys, and chooses 7 Virgins and pours out the plagues onto the earth. He sleeps with his daughter-in-law as well. He calls himself Michael Cow Pastureville. They totally copycat Wayne Bent and Strong City in every detail. He also lays with 2 underage female virgins and does Nude Healing sessions with them as well. One of them has 5 or more of these sessions with Michael alone on his bed. This Michael also deflowers most of the Virgins in his camp, and all of this “new land” is “married” to him as well. The state of New Mexico and the media hear about it. Movies and documentaries are made. The internet is a buzzing as well. this Michael and Strong City is a Mirror of the other one, identical in every way. Michael Cow Pastureville is arrested and charged with the same crimes as was our Michael Travesser, except for two hitches. There is a difference between the two groups. Number One, The second Michael is not Michael Travesser. He is a copycat, an imposter, even though he really believes in his heart that his calling is sincere and from God. And number two. Michael Travesser had never gone to trial, because he had never been turned in, because nobody from the outside of Strong City knew about the underage girls. He had instructed the church to tell no one about it because of the bad possibilities that could come out of it. He exercised a bit of wisdom. It was all a secret kept by Strong City from the world. The jury is now selected for this second Michael’s trial, and low and behold, every jury member for that trial is a resident of Strong City, from Jeff Bent on down the line including Eileen, Wendy, Bill, Jody, Debbie, Faithlily, Kathy, Jerry, Timothy, Travis, Aquinna,and Dale and Kay as alterates. This trial goes the same way as Wayne Bents trial to the letter. National Geographic films it as well. You sit there and see the evidence. Sarah Montoya is this Michael’s court apponted attorney. How would you have ruled? You heard the safe room interviews. Would you have found the second Michael guilty, or not guilty. Would you have accepted this “new” self-sent messial, who was a copycat? You did not know his character in the same way that you did know Wayne Bent’s character. This second Michael touched nude little girls like a doctor to heal them while he was nude himself. Would you have locked him up? There can only be one Michael Travesser, only one messiah. Do you remember when another former minister of the LOR wanted to copycat Wayne and have two witnesses, and he was quickly shut down? Put yourself in that world of outsiders seeing and hearing about these things for the first time as did this unsuspecting world who ended up hearding about Michael Travesser. Was the state of New Mexico wrong to protect her citizens? Was the media only doing it’s job? Were the parents of the children involved correct in turning in their former pastor? You judge! Where does it all end? Did the world need another messiah besides Jesus Christ? What was wrong with Jesus? Wasn’t his death on the cross enough in your eyes? Did Jesus have to touch nude little girls? Consider my senario carefully. I did, and I know how I would have ruled as well. The world represented in Union county New Mexico saw this Wayne Bent as a real threat, rightfully so, as would you also perhaps would have seen Michael Cow Pastureville as a real threat to your closed sociey. There can only be one messiah. I would like to hear some comments on what I have offered as food for thought from everyone.
Johnny, interesting question.
If Wayne Bent were the fourth or fifth messiah to do what he has done with women and under aged children, we know how his Strong City followers would vote. To them, nothing would matter, as long as it was their god (Wayne) who did it. Milton is exhibit A for how they think and for what they believe.
He claims to be the second, but Sam has exposed that error. Any search on the internet will reveal how often Wayne’s folly happens in cults. Father Yod and a host of others were doing it all with Scriptures before Wayne found came along.