Update: AG asks state Supreme Court to deny Bent appeal (kob.com, 10/16)
Advisory: Comments in this thread have been re-opened
Update: “Imprisoned For Sabbath Keeping” (strongcity.info, 10/7)
*NEW*: VIDEO, “Wayne Bent defends his hunger strike” (krqe.com, 9/24)
Update: “Judge rules in favor of force feeding imprisoned cult leader” (koat.com, 9/23)
Update: “Judge puts fasting cult leader in doctor’s hands” (kob.com, 9/23)
*New: (updated to include *VIDEO* of KOB-TV’s 6pm news story) “Court could intervene on cult leader’s fast” (kob.com, 9/23)
Video: (KOAT, 9/22)
Update: “Cult leader Wayne Bent is scheduled to be in court on Wednesday as a judge decides whether the state should force feed him.” (koat.com, 9/22)
Update: Leader of NM sect goes on fast in prison (Associated Press on KOB-TV website, 9/17, 1:15pm PST)
***
(September 17) Beyond90Seconds received an e-mail from Jeff Bent at 7:10 am (PST) today. Bent is the son of “cult leader” Wayne Bent, whose criminal case has been extensively covered on this blog. Wayne Bent (aka Michael Travesser) and his followers have also been the subject of two National Geographic Channel documentaries and numerous news reports around the world. In December 2008, a New Mexico jury convicted Wayne Bent on one count of second-degree sexual contact with a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. According to his son, prisoner Wayne Bent has been fasting for 18 days.
Jeff Bent’s unedited e-mail, apparently sent to numerous media outlets, is shared below with his permission:
Hello,
You are receiving this message because you have contacted me about my
father, Wayne Bent, or have reported on his criminal case. I have
sent copies of this message to New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson,
Attorney General Gary King, and the Department of Corrections.My father is on the 18th day of a religious fast over his wrongful
conviction and imprisonment. Since Monday, September 14th, he has
been taking water only.John McCall, my father’s attorney, stated publicly, “Our office has
determined that this case is more of a trial of the media and the
structures in our society that are tasked with determining the truth.”
The media’s role is to separate fact from fiction, and to seek the
truth. The courts are to judge according to the facts and the law -
nothing else.The media and the courts failed spectacularly at doing their job. My
father, Wayne Bent, found himself at the center of a national media
feeding frenzy in 2008, having become the subject of a largely
contrived and self-perpetuating storyline of a “cult leader” requiring
sex with the young virgins in his apocalyptic church while falsely
predicting the end of the world. While this fiction had mass appeal
and was much more interesting than the truth, it resulted in a highly
charged criminal case involving his healing practices with two teenage
sisters. Caught up in the maelstrom of publicity and unable, or
unwilling, to separate my father’s media created persona from the
actual events called into question, the court failed in its role to
stick with the facts and the law, delivering a great injustice to my
father and his church.This outcome should be of concern to everyone that understands the
importance of a legal system that protects people equally under the
law, especially unpopular minorities who may find themselves targeted
by the media’s powerful ability to mold public perceptions.The facts of my father’s criminal case are as follows:
1. My father was charged with two counts of criminal sexual contact
with a minor (CSM), and two counts of contributing to the delinquency
of a minor (CDM). He was acquitted on one count of CSM, and convicted
on the other counts.2. These charges stemmed from a religious healing practice where the
teenaged minors asked to be in his presence unclothed. These
encounters were for the purpose of healing prior emotional trauma in a
safe setting. These encounters were decidedly and emphatically
non-sexual in nature. The minors’ parents were not unaware of the
healing practices some in the church were requesting of Mr. Bent. It
was a subject of open discussion within the church.3. It was common for Wayne Bent, when he was still ministering to his
flock, to put his hand on the sternum above the heart, just below the
clavicle. He did this to invest the soul of that person with his own
peace. It is believed by Mr. Bent that the heart is where the soul
resides.4. Witness A.S., age 16 at the time, was one of the minors who
requested of Wayne Bent to be in a state of naked vulnerability in his
presence so she could release prior emotional trauma that blocked her
from Oneness with God. This non-sexual 15 minute session with A.S. is
what resulted in my father’s conviction on one count of CSM. A.S.
left the church and chose a different lifestyle a couple of years
before this case went to trial. The other witness – her younger
sister – remains part of my father’s church.5. A.S. testified that my father, Wayne Bent, placed his hand on her
sternum over her heart. When asked if his hand touched any portion of
her breast, she replied, “I don’t remember.” The prosecutor asked if
Mr. Bent placed his hand anywhere else on her body. She answered,
“Not that I recall.”6. A.S. said Mr. Bent kissed her on her “breast.” When asked to show
the court where he kissed her, she pointed to an area on her chest
below her left clavicle and above the pillow portion of her breast.
There were significant questions during the trial of what constitutes
a breast that were never answered.7. Defense attorney Sarah Montoya showed witness A.S. a Barbie doll
wearing a bikini and asked her if Mr. Bent touched her anywhere on her
body where the Barbie was covered by the bikini. She answered, “No.”
Ms. Montoya asked “Are you sure?” A.S. replied, “Yes.”8. My father, Wayne Bent, testified under oath that he never touched
the breasts of either witness.9. During a bench conference with counsel at closing arguments, Judge
Gerald Baca can be heard on the record whispering, “There’s no
evidence to support that there was ever a touching of the breast.”10. During closing arguments, the prosecutor told the jury multiple
times that the witnesses both testified that they were touched on the
breasts by Mr. Bent. This falsehood, as well as others uttered by the
prosecutor, helped sway the jury in the direction of conviction,
according to one juror who was interviewed afterwards by The Alibi
newspaper.11. Judge Baca sentenced my father to 18 years in prison, with 8
years suspended. He also received 8 years supervised probation and
must register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.To say the least, my father did not receive justice at his trial. The
State failed to meet any reasonable burden of proof that my father had
broken the law. Much of the trial consisted of testimony from the
State’s witnesses about my father’s controversial religious beliefs.
Having controversial beliefs is not a crime in New Mexico.The sentence he received is incredible beyond belief, being extremely
disproportionate by any measure of comparison. The sentence for
murder in the second degree is 14 years. The day before my father
received his sentence, a high school coach in Alamogordo was sentenced
to ten months work release for having sexual intercourse multiple
times with a 16 year old student at his mother’s apartment. This year
a fire captain in Rio Rancho received probation for having sexual
intercourse with a 15 year old multiple times in the fire house.My father has been turned down twice for a bond that he is legally
entitled to receive during his appeal. Why is that? Why is this
frail, physically at risk 68 year old man such as threat to everyone?
Why is the State so determined to keep him locked away?My father is mindful of the fact that the courts are heavily
influenced by public opinion regarding his case, and not the facts and
the law. There are no political costs for keeping him in prison, but
justice has taken a back seat to political expediency.This is why my father is now on a religious fast, and will not end his
fast until there is movement in the direction of justice, or he dies.
He was wrongly convicted and wrongly incarcerated as a result of a
modern-day witch-hunt, and he cannot continue to be a party to this
travesty of justice.Jeff Bent
I would be very curious about who is visiting him now and how it compares to before the Fast began, or if he is having any visitors at all. He clearly stated that he wanted more time with his loved ones, which seemed apart of why he wanted them to bring his vegan meals. Well they are not apparently bringing him the Ensure and if he has been restricted from visits then what has he accomplished?
And I have been focusing too on the 40 days but as KM points out this has not been a continuous Fast in the real sense for 40 continuous days.
Restart the count.
The count should be restarted. The reason, now it’s a new fast. The new fast is not from nutrition as the old one was advertised; now he takes nutrition. Because of the voice, his fast has changed, Now his fast is from the tubes.
Perhaps we should consider the reason this counter’s still “ticking” and we are now on day 40.
In just a few hours Sabbath begins and he and people of SC enter their rest.
Mr Bent is following the exact chronological sequence of events of Jesus 40 day fast,
where just as Jesus, he too was in the wilderness, as angels ministered and encouraged, wild beast surrounding, Satan tempted Him but He did not sin.
So tonight when Sabbath begins at sundown Mr Bent will have fulfilled just as Jesus.
And just as Jesus, Mr Bents claim that he did not sin or give into the Beast or Satan as well.
Perhaps tomorrow will bring us news of this and we’ll soon learn that he is entering into a new journey,
and how he was victorious as was Jesus and only those who see him as messiah has ability to discern “their truth” and that Mr Bent no longer needs this fast.
Maybe I just “blew it” for him and now he’s got to rewrite and change a few things. ooops!
PS. I’ve been fasting over 734 days now. And I’m feeling awesome! And if all goes well, I will continue this fast for another 40 years as I’ve done just fine without Tofu, Turnips and Garbonzo beans.
What does everyone at SC eat? I see they are vegans but what exactly do they live on?
What does everyone at SC eat? I see they are vegans but what exactly do they live on? Where is it in the bible that they cannot eat meat?
Anonymous One, can Google Search SDA diet for more information, but here’s a little of what I’ve learned thru my studies in nutrition the last 10 years.
Nowhere in the Holy scriptures can it be found
where it states “thou shall not eat ground round”
But a more natural plant based vegan diet is most healthy because our western diet is cause for heart disease, diabetes
and cancers alarming epidemic rates.
An independent study of members of the SDA faith live an average 7 & 8 yrs longer than average population
http://www.sdachip.org/
http://www.sd
Best book on the market to read about Western diet death
China Study. It has no connection with the SDA church.
The China Study details the connection between nutrition and heart disease, diabetes and cancer.
http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html
The science is clear. The results are unmistakable.
Change your diet and dramatically reduce the risk of cancer, diabetes, heart disease and obesity.
Respected nutrition and health researcher, Dr. T. Colin Campbell reveals the truth behind special interest groups, government entities and scientists that have taken Americans down a deadly path
Even today, as the low-carb craze sweeps the nation, two-thirds of adults are still obese and children are being diagnosed with Type II diabetes, typically an “adult” disease, at an alarming rate. If we’re eating healthier, why are Americans stricken with heart disease as much as we were 30 years ago?
Sorry it was such long post, but the SC diet needed explanation as they follow the same diet as those in the SDA church. Is not an issue of animal foods being a “sin”, but is more about healthy living which our bodies being the Temple of the Holy Spirit we abstain from harmful practices in not only diet, but in physical excersise, temperance, prayer and trust in Divine Guidence.
Sorry, I just noticed part of the link was missing.
Here’s the correct link you will find most interesting and explains best the reason for our seemingly crazy diets.
http://www.sdada.org/position.htm
Thank you so much for that in depth information and all of the links! I’m going to take some time to read them tonight. I really appreciate it. I do agree our western diets are bad for us. My mom had a heart attack a year ago and her doc told her it was fast food, etc.
David made a great post about restarting the count. I have a feeling when the new message is heard by Wayne it will have some special significance about the days this fast lasted and of course why it is no longer necessary to fast.
Since I see we are at Day 41 there must have been a start and restart in there somewhere. In fact if Wayne quickly gained 10 lbs he could easily go 30 more days without the tubes and technically be fasting for a long time.
So he gets down to the critical period and then goes on Ensure then fasts for a few weeks again and around and around we go.
Ok Hanifa and Esther can you defend or explain this?
THE NEW COUNT
Does anybody know the new count? How many days since our man started taking his nourishment so the tubes would be removed?
I don’t think the count means anything. I think they just haven’t bothered to remove it yet.
I have been reading posts from the keyboard of Wayne Bent since 1988, and I have noticed a drastic change in his writing style and approach to everything, especially in the past year or so. I just can’t believe what I am reading now-a-days. But nothing as drastic as what is appearing from his pen in the last three months. I have never seen Wayne go to such great lengths to justify his current situation as he has been doing, especially this past month. It seems as if he isn’t even thinking about what he is presenting and how it appears to the normal reader who forms their opinions strickly from his written words alone. This last post seems so “Off the Cuff” and unsubstansiated with thoughts which have no proof texts or evidence to back up his claims. We are to simple trust the “voice” which is telling him reasons for his current behaviour and decisions to state that he is still fasting, when in fact he is not. “Ensure” is not medicine. It is a nutricious sweet milk shake used to nurish the body when it is not able to receive food through the normal means. It has vitamins, minerals, proteins, and carbs to run the human body. It is not regulated by any drug standards, nor is it ever prescribed like a doctor regulated drug through a standard drug program. You can buy it at Walmart, Sam’s Club, or any food grocery chain. Some people use it for going on a diet to lose weight, and the state of New Mexico is using it to “fatten” up Wayne Bent to keep him alive. It is food, and is known to be liquid food. It is not medicine, and even God knows that better than anyone. Is this the best that the Voice can give to Mr. Bent to substain his flock with spiritual food, real “Manna” from heaven per say. This Ensure will give them hope to hold on to his mission for the ages. It really appears that he is going with the flow as each new day comes around. Now Wayne is going to get healthy from drinking Ensure with his mouth, because the tubes hurt, and he is going to get fed anyway, one way or another. It really looks like he is giving in to me. And then what happens when he gains about 30 or so pounds from the Ensure. I can just see day 78 of the fast as Wayne receives his (Food, medicine) 3 times a day and he wipes his lips off with a paper napkin and he burps and says “Excuse me”. Are we all really that stupid to fall for all of this? When will God tell Wayne that it is OK to eat some Lentals, what the children of God ate when the contest was on between Daniel’s friends and the choice men of the King. The scriptures even said the friends of Daniel were “fatter” than the King’s men. I can seriously picture a fat Wayne Bent on day 137 of the fast. holding out his cup when his prescribed medicine shows up on schedule each and every meal time. They will have to take his pants out a few inches to accomadate his daily medicine intake. I just wonder how much water accidentally trinkles into Wayne’s mouth when he takes a shower. Honesty Wayne, is this the best that you can do to hold on to your flock and your kingdom? Clearly you are a man who is under the influeance of “Ensure”, a food substance so full of sugar, that it turns into alcolhol when it goes into your bloodstream. Yes, one can get drunk on “Ensure”, I can imagine. Well Wayne, A Toast, I lift my cup up to you. Live long and prosper, old friend, and be sure to not forget to recycle and throw away your emptys in a proper waste can.
MESSIAH ENSURED
What will messiah’s drink, Ensure, what will it do for him? Besides nourish and keep him alive, it will ensure that he is no longer on his fast. The way things were going, all things considered, it just became too uncomfortable. At least this is what he said about it. And I am sure we all agree.
Good for you Wayne, we certainly didn’t want to see you gone. I feel like I was the only one who was not afraid of that, anyway.
Johnny – I think this is how Bent trys to “spin” things. He talks out of both sides of his face and now is trying to justify him taking the Ensure. Part of me wonders if he really fears death!?
What is wrong with Wayne Bent?
Johnny the part of your post that I found the most interesting was how you have noticed such a drastic change in his writing style and his approach to everything. I certainly am no expert on this because I have not read many of Wayne’s earlier writings as others here have. But even I have sensed a change as he seldom backs up his words with any rational thoughts at all. He rambles all over everywhere and I find it very hard to fathom how any of his true supporters can not be worrying more about his mind than even his body. His body will thrive with the Ensure but his mind perhaps is long gone. I honestly believe there is much to be studied by comparing his earlier works with what we are seeing now. Something just is not quite right with all of this and I believe it is more than the fast, more than just being in prison and perhaps some deep mental problem.
Jan
GET A LIFE
Every once in a while, an LOR will come on with some advice for us on how to live. They might say something like we heard recently, “get a life.”
In their tone we understand what they mean; as compared to us who have none, they have one. Sam, in speaking for the rest of us here answered them very nicely. He described a little of our lives for them, for how would they know.
From where they are, they can’t see us. From where they are can’t even see out. They think they can, but what they see is only their imagination. And their imagination of the world only comes from inside their own head. As they describe their views for us, we see the reflection of their own thoughts, only what goes on in their heads.
We can look around at the natural world around us for an example by which to compare those like the LOR’s, their lives and how they think, what they see. Where do we see in nature this, the LOR situation?
They feel completely “protected”, insulated from outside influence. Whatever the one man says, they buy it (eat it). If he doesn’t buy (eat) it first, they don’t eat it either. This is their life, how it works. They feel they need nothing more. So, where in nature do we find this sort of life style lived out? For such an example, allow me to suggest the life of a tape worm?
How does a tape worm live and experience life? A tape worm is insulated nicely from outside influences inside where he lives. He is always protected from the cold and the weather. He always has plenty to eat. He feels a close kinship with his host.
At first, he may be offended at some of the things coming down from above at him, but after he eats them, having no choice in the mater, after a while he decides they are pretty good. If he ever decided something was so offensive as to be rejected by him, he would be slid right on out of there. If he knows what is good for him, he will not decide that.
All anyone needs to do to see that we “have a life” is look at the front page of Prudence’s blog.
The joy I see in her face and the face of her child show me that she is truly living a wonderful life. Yes, she has sadness to deal with but she also has a beautiful family and a beautiful life. God doesn’t shelter us from sadness, illness or hurtful people. But He embraces us and gives us strength to get through the tough moments.
And there are so many other people who are experiencing joy in their lives. Johnny had a reunion with family members and he’s written a book. He’s joyful after many years of sadness. And there are many more ex-followers (if you just want to look at their lives) who are also loving the life they’re living.
Sadly, there are no little children to love and nurture at SC, they’ve all been sent away. Unless he’s completely exonerated, when Bent gets out there still will not be any young children. And children give us so much love and have no hidden agenda, they just love. They have no pets to cuddle with on a cold night, take for a walk or to receive from them their unconditional love. They have few friends on the outside to call up and chat with or enjoy a cup of coffee with at the local diner. All they have is each other (along with broken marriages and exiled family members) and all they want is for their leader to return.
So, let them enjoy their isolated, insulated life at SC, pining away for their “messiah”, but give me the joy of family and friends along with the trials that will occasionally cause me pain. I’d rather feel the pain than be so protected from the world God created that I feel nothing.
Bravo KM Bravo……. (Applause)!!!
KM hits the nail on the head. Excellent post.
Why do the people at SC want no children around them? The bible clearly states that children are a heritage of the Lord.
When Esther says “Get a life”, oh honey, I have a life. I have had the wonderous joyful experience of giving birth. I have a precious child and I am a mother. Some of these young women at SC do not want a baby. They claim that Wayne is the newborn “baby” they found in the “woods”.
Why does Hanifa deny her own daughter the joy of being a mother and giving birth as she was allowed to experience? She has taught her not to have children from what I can see. As the people at SC have no patience for them, they don’t even want animals around them. Yes, something very wrong with this to me.
WB sits in prison and these young beautiful women are going to sit in their trailers every day praying for this man to return while they shun every good opportunity to experience the joys that life can bring. I find it strange that the women such as Danielle, Liberty, and Esther do not want to have a family of their own.
I could be wrong but I do not think they will let WB out of prison. He will serve at least up to 5 or 7 years and if he dies in prison what will these women do?
I find it sad because they tell us to get a life while I probably have more of a life than they will ever know.
KM did you ever read their old blogs the women used to keep? Alot of them had pictures depicting a mother holding a newborn. It made me wonder if they were all wishing for babies of their own.
As for family goes, I wonder if Ami ever wishes she were spending more time with her handsome son who has grown up quite alot. Does she ever sit and wonder how much she is missing out on?
I believe we get one go around here, before we leave this earth and time is short and precious.
I just had a friend pass away at 50 years old. She had diabetes and did not know it. She led the healthiest lifestyle and ate similar to how the SDA eat. She always took care of herself. It was a shock to all of us when she went to sleep and passed from having a heart attack. She never woke to see her new grandbaby that had been born that afternoon.
I am still heartbroken over it all as are her sons and daughters.
My point here is, we just never know when our time ends on this earth and I wonder if these people in SC will ever understand the depth of that loss when we are separated from our families and friends all in the name of “beliefs”. And all of the things they have give up for WB. All of those joys life affords us… they are choosing to let slip through their hands for a fake messiah. An old man who can never give them nothing but lies.
The more I think of these things I begin to pity them more than ever.
Those of us here wondering, astonished really, at their “lives” (or rather lack of them), I have a question for you. Why do you think the best they can do as they write us is to condemn us to what they imagine as hell and hiss at us to get a life?
Very nice post KM and I agree that it is great now seeing Prudence living a full and rich life with her family. She was intelligent enough to realize that things were not quite right on the Land and was brave enough to leave. A place that does not even want small children or pets has to be a very cold place in deed. How many people can even be living there now? Thirty? With Jeff and Wayne’s brides all near the prison who is left? What kind of world could even exist on the land?
I find it quite telling that since Esther came on here and suggested we all “get a life” and many have shown her that we actually have one she has not returned. What do you do with your days now Esther? You are not even living on the Land anymore.
And the so called Fast continues, 45th day. How is the ensure, Mr. Bent?
Hope – I’m sure Esther, Hanifa and the others are here, lurking around in the shadows, they just don’t want us to know because they have a life and we don’t!
I’m trying to figure out who said Strong City didn’t want children on the land. Is that since Bent got in trouble? I thought children are welcome there as long as they were well behaved and didn’t get out of hand.
The whole concept about there not being any children left in the LOR originated with their understanding that the final, true people of God are sinless, and are to be sinless while dwelling on the earth. In time past, church members caught in open sin were purged from the church in order to keep the church pure. Sometimes when a secret sin was confessed to a minister, that minister often turned on the confessing one and turned states evidence against them, and there would be a short trial, and that one was also given the boot. Sort of takes away the need of a crucified Saviour who was willing to to be a real Messiah to the people. When these sinners were children, they were often shipped off to relatives, or the whole family moved off the land owned by the church, so they could keep their erring child. I am not going to mention names, but the LOR has a rather lengthy list of sinners still in her membership, and these sinners are allowed to stay on the church books, as long as they show proper repentance, and do penance for their former evil deeds. That inner circle around Wayne Bent did have it’s advantages. Sometimes they were disfellowshipped for a short period of time, but they come back after jumping through the proper hoops to regain acceptance with the church (Wayne). Some of these sinners had signed over their inheridances to the church as well. Some of the sins committed were wife beating (Spanking), homosexuality, fornication, child abuse, child sexual abuse, stealing, gossipping, telling lies, and well, I guess they have done practically everything under the sun, and yet they continue to stand under their “Sinless” banner. We all know how pure their “convicted” messiah is by all means.
Anyway these children most of the time when they got shipped off, did indeed go out and get a life of their own, and they never did come back to the LOR. Young teenage boys were the first to get the boot, and that is why there were so many avialable young female virgins on the land when they were needed. No eye candy for the girls to look at, just old men and married couples. Married couples were the next institution to be split apart, so there were no more healthy family units for the remaining children to look upon and pattern their lifes after, just a old impotent man walking around with two married women hanging off each side of him and catering to his every whim. Pets were discouraged on Strong City, as they attracted coyotes and cougers. But perhaps a couple of cougers were allowed to roam the land at will, and take their pick from among the membership…
Thank you for your kind words! I’m sure many of us have thought what I wrote, I just finally had the time to sit down and post it.
Anon, no I don’t remember the blogs or pictures but I’ve always wondered about the younger women not wanting a family. A family comes with so many blessings that you tend to forget the hard times that are also part of any relationship. I can’t imagine my life without my family and I look forward to having grandchildren. To be young and not want a child or the children you’ve already been given seems so unnatural. I met Ami’s son, handsome young man, what a blessing he could be to his parents or to one of the beautiful girls who are “married” to Bent. They are missing out on so much.
I still remember the awe and joy I felt the first time I held my babies. And the love in my heart when they put their little hand in mine. So many little things that you don’t remember all the time but a certain moment will bring them out of the recesses of your brain.
How sad for your friend and her family, sadness and joy in the same moment. But, you are so right! We get one chance at this life. One chance to use what God has given us for his glory. They are letting life pass them by and I wonder too if they will ever understand how joyous life on earth can really be?
David, I think we are condemned by them because they are in their own living hell and they can’t stand the fact that some people got out of that hell (or were never in it) and are enjoying the life God gave them. They are sad and miserable so we should be as well. They are caught up in Satan’s grip and at the name of “Jesus” they could break free but they are afraid, which is why I still pray for them.
Diane, I’m not sure how it happened but family by family the ones with young children left, before he got in trouble. Prudence wrote something about a meeting and children, I think one of her boys broke his arm or leg. Supposedly he was worried that if kids kept getting injured, the authorities would start looking at SC. Hah! My 5 children have all had broken bones and stitches, it’s a part of growing up. My children were well behaved for the most part but I can imagine the fun they would have living in a camp style setting. They would be enjoying it to the fullest.
The children who stayed, Esther, Danielle, Willow and Healed are the ones I’m thinking of, are now grown and have become his “wife” or want to be. Marriages aren’t happening so none of them are having children because they aren’t married to a man who can give them that gift. I just read Johnny’s post and I think he has a better understanding of no children at SC.
This is the day the Lord hath made! Enjoy it! :)
@Johnny - In your previous posts you said that Wayne’s latest writings were “unsubstantiated with thoughts which have no proof texts or evidence to back up his claims. Then we have your “thoughts.”
Just FYI, ingested sugar does not turn to alcohol, Ensure can’t make you drunk and Wayne most certainly was not impotent.
Sam, I am going to sort of unload on you, but this is not personal, please believe me. I am addressing a mindset often seen on this forum. I still like you and welcome your input. But I am surprised that you would even say what you just said. Every medical student who has ever cracked a medical text book knows how the human body assimulates sugar and alcohol, and how sugar and alcohol is broken down. Come on Nurses and chemists, back me up on this one. Sugars and alcohols work together in many of the same ways. And yes, Ensure is packed full of sugar. But what do I know, I am only a gasman.
And yes, Wayne is very impotent, as he was clipped a very long time ago. Go ask his last legal wife Sandy Bent, as she was the one who dropped that bomb shell to the other minister’s wives many years ago. I got this from Stephanie Armstrong. I do have my trust worthy connections, and I have no problem naming them.
You know Sam, you have spent a whole lot of time reading Wayne’s writings and have gone to great lengths to make them avialable, and you appear to have rather good recall when it comes to be able to find something that Wayne has written, but one thing that you will never be able to do. You were even referred to be a “Expert” witness for the trial. But there is one thing that you are NOT expert at. And that was to have also lived through those events that you are so able to pull up onto a computer screen so well. I saw the original words when they were first written. I experienced the conversations the LOR members had among themselves in their homes, and while walking on the land, words which were never put into print. I saw their facial expressions, their tears, the confusion at times. I saw the personal battles in these minds and souls. I experienced the gut wrenching self-examinations which were imposed on the church membership. I saw real life people come and go, some sent off to total isolation and loneliness, some who were only children. I cried, fasted, broke bread with, and prayed with these people 18 and a half years. I even for most of that time believed in Wayne Bent/Michael Travesser. I saw and experienced first hand, everything when it happened, because I was there. Am I just talking about just simple “thoughts” here? My whole body, along with my brain was involved as well. I’ve got plenty of evidences which speak for themselves. My thoughts are not heresay, and even Strong City knows that, including Mr. Bent himself. The LOR sees me as a backsliding, turncoating Judus. I have been called that to my face, especially through e-mails, which I still have on my harddrive. Yet they, the LOR also knows that I was with them way too long to not know what I am talking about. David Mead was only there in the beginning, but I ran the whole length of the whole course. I still have all the CD’s, papers, movies, and even things that you do not have in your possession, as evidences that I am telling the truth. There was reasons why Strong City did not want Prudence Welch to take the stand at Wayne’s trial. Her and other former members like myself would have painted a very different and accurate picture of Cult life in the LOR. FOR WE WERE THE LOR as much as the current LOR members are the LOR. And not all of us are bitter and angry. It was just how our lives played out. We can’t do it all over again. Sam, where were you when all of these events were happening, even from day one when the church was formed? If it wasn’t for the comments posted on here by the formers members, the rest of you who do post on here would not have a single shread of truth to back your “theorys” on. And if we, the former members were to leave this forum, where would you be? Many of you take great pleasure in looking behind the figleaves of the LOR, but you are not willing to give us a little peek at your own vunderability. Are you all any different? For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There are a lot of “stone” throwers who lurk on this forum, who throw their stones and then log off. For some of you this is great sport. I may have sniffed propane for 30 years, but I do have a mind left and I do know the LOR. My Dad used to tell me, “Just because my ass is dumb, does not mean that I am a “Dumbass”. And I would not trade my experiences for anything else under the sun. Because this is my life, and I get no other life to live while on this blue ball. Yes, and maybe Esther is right to a degree. Maybe some of you do need to get a life. I hope my current posting here does not offend anyone. I just want some of you to be real, compassionant, and not forget what all of this posting on Mark’s forum is really about. It’s to help people to know the truth, so mistakes are not repeated ever again. And it is to help people to help themselves. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Johnny – Thanks to my husband, I am forced to watch the prison shows on MSNBC on the weekends and yes, they make that special prison blend, hooch or better known as PRUNO with sugar. Here’s what you need to make it. Make note of the 50 single serving packets of sugar, important ingrediant!
Things You’ll Need:
8 ounces of fruit (one source can be fruit cocktail)
Sealable bag (such as Ziplock bags)
Rubber bands
50 single serving packages of sugar
Water (one pound)
Ketchup (5 to 6 teaspoons)
Ten peeled oranges (optional)
When I was a prison guard in 1978, the inmates called it “Buck”. So yes, Ensure can very directly be used to make “Hooch, Buck, Pruno”. I did not even consider that possibility. But you forgot to add the most important ingrediant to the mixture. And that is “Yeast”. I don’t think that Wayne’s “fast” will permit all of that good food to pass his lips, unless the “Voice” has had first dibs on the bottle, and approves of the delightful drink, after all it does not come forth from a faucet like water does.
Hey Johhny,
Don’t think Sam was challenging all that you said. Just a couple points of difference. But I am glad you said what you did anyway. Good thoughts really. I doubt you would have said them had you not been slightly provoked. I too would make a point by way of clarification; yes, I was there (only) at the beginning, but it was what Wayne and I put together that stayed with the group after I left. (I take no credit for the foolishness that Wayne put together by himself, of which the world is now aware).
Hey Sam, don’t say things that get Johhny going like that. (Actually, right or not, I’m glad it did. What he said should be helpful to anyone interested in this case)
Johnny – What is the name of your book? I would luv to get a copy.
Thank you!
My Dad loves his Brandied Fruit on ice cream. At 79 and still working hard it’s nice for him to have a little treat now and then. After he starts in in a big jar, he stirs it and adds a little sugar everyday.
johnny, you are definitely a source for inside information, although I’m sorry that it ended the way it did. But, we have to remember that God has a plan for all of us and His way, which might be painful at the time, is the path we should follow in our lives.
One word that can be confusing though is impotent. Some people do use it to mean sterile or unable to produce seed but the most common definition is a man is incapable of getting or maintaining an erection. Thus the annoying ads for the little blue pill.
And I chuckled to myself when I remembered a picture they had on the news of you and others sitting in the courtroom listening to thing you knew weren’t true. I’ll bet you had more than a few people shaking in their boots (including Bent) because you knew the truth! Too bad you weren’t a witness!
I dare say that Wayne Bent certainly is not impotent or there must not have been any of those consummations that he smiled about. Being sterile to me is not the same as impotent. Fortunately for these young ladies he apparently is sterile having had a vasectomy at some point but older men now have a way with that little blue pill to have a full and rich sex life.
You’re in luck Johnny, look no further for expertise. Irony of ironies, I am an organic chemist. That’s the work I have done for the past 40 years, running a organic chemical research laboratory. I not only do document work as you have heard, but I do forensic chemical analysis and research as well. I won’t try to give you an education in chemical esoterica, but if you are interested in the chemistry of sugar metabolism, then you can read this link for a good discussion:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573894/Sugar_Metabolism.html
In animals (humans being animals), the end of the chain of reactions in the metabolism of sugar results in the production of lactic acid (utilized by the body as fuel). With plants, on the other hand, the end of the similar chain of reactions starting with sugar does result in ethyl alcohol. It’s a defining difference between plants and animals.
No, sugar does not become alcohol after ingestion and like I said… “you can’t get drunk on Ensure.” And talking about making it into “hooch” is like changing the goal posts during the game, a common LOR tendency it seems.
Johnny, it never hurts to admit when you’re wrong. No point in defending the indefensible (sadly, yet another LOR trait).
Johnny – Bravo!
Hmmm … Johnny Miller
I find what you say Johnny a bit over the top, quite honestly. I think over and over again many and perhaps most of the people that have posted here on Mark’s forum have shown a great deal of compassion for the people at Strong City. I know I have said over and over again that I personally care what happens to them and that I feel badly they have decided to cast their souls for a man I personally do not believe is worthy. I have also said though that it is their right to think and believe whatever they want. I do not think I have to open the doors of my own personal life to be able to offer thoughts on this subject.
There is no question that you were there Johnny Miller and you have the greater insight into the events at Strong City. You have witnessed much of this up close and very personally. Has anyone here questioned that? No one that I can see has been anything but most grateful for any bit of personal stories that you have been willing to share. So your rant trying to defend it seems unnecessary. I hope you will share more as it is always the most interesting posts here. I believe that is your area of expertise.
I am glad though that you asked for an expert, “chemist.” You perhaps were not aware of how Sam Redman has made his living for the past forty years!
Jan
Perhaps I can explain a little of what may lie behind Johnny’s attitude toward milk and sugar as found in the Ensure product. All SDA’s are aware of some quotations by their prophet Ellen White that speak of the effects of these two things when taken together. (And of course, LOR, where Johnny came from has the same prophet.)
In the LOR as well, but more so in the SDA religion, diet (thinness) has replaced the gospel. In practice, thinness passes for holiness and the thin are respected while the thicker are passed over. Perhaps you have noticed there are not too many thicker people in LOR. It’s a large part of their religion.
For what it is worth, here is a couple examples of what the prophet said about sugar and milk.
“Some use milk and a large amount of sugar on mush, thinking that they are carrying out health reform. But the sugar and milk combined are liable to cause fermentation in the stomach, and are thus harmful.”
“I frequently sit down to the tables of the brethren and sisters, and see that they use a great amount of milk and sugar. These clog the system, irritate the digestive organs, and affect the brain. Anything that hinders the active motion of the living machinery, affects the brain very directly.”
Ok, Ok, Uncle… I will give Sam the baton on this one. I may be out on the edge on this sugar/alcohol debate. But I do agree with my friend Mr. Mead about the SDA teachings by Ellen White, and also Yuchi Pines Institute where I got alot of my ideas about the bodies chemical reactions to substances, especial milk and sugar, which was exactly what I was really referring to. I certainly would not desire to live on Ensure like someone we all know here. My most resent rant probably centers on my frustration of helplessness of not being able to reach my former friends, and the apparent craziness of a certain Mr. Wayne Bent. I hate to apply labels, but he does open himself up for them. And yes Jan, I too care for the inhabitants of Strong City as well. My former wife still living there keeps me glued to the news about this group. And anytime I need a chemist in the future, I will surely call on the services of Mr. Redman. I did not know of his background at all.
I am also an expert on Propane, and I know much more than Hank Hill will ever know, not that it matters, and that knowledge does not pay for a cup of coffee for me at the local Cafe, and really has nothing to do with the LOR, as also does this discussion about sugar. I was wrong, am corrected, and will not bring it up again… just don’t get me started on Propane, because I have quite a few stories about that most excellant fuel… Did you know that it is non-toxic, and has a Octane of 120? Like I said, don’t get me started.
Very nice response Johnny… I’m happy and you’re happy. It’s great to be friends with you.
You know crow really tastes alot like chicken.
i just hope that non toxic, high Octane propane isn’t a drink, I prefer coffee! Night all! ;)
I could almost see Hank Hill and Johnny Miller standing in the alley having a beer and talking propane.
Johnny – I LOVE Hank Hill!! Yup.
I have a question about the hearing and witnesses. If you and Prudence had so much knowledge of the LOR, why didn’t they call either of you on the stand? Especially when it could have helped their case. I don’t get that!
That happened to my cousin Mike during the murder trial. For example, they had someone from the maintenance department testify about a paper machine and how it functions from start to end and what happens in the event of a paper break. Okay, the guy really wasn’t from maintenance but he was from another department and never worked on a paper machine in his life. Here they convicted 6 INNOCENT men on hearsay, double and triple hearsay and “inexpert” witnesses. No evidence at all.
After 5 1/2 years when my cousin was released, Judge Gordon ruled that the guilty verdict required the jury to pile speculation on top of inferences that were drawn from other inferences and such a verdict is not rational. The jury couldn’t differentiate one man from the other so they just called them all guilty. They wasted weeks of peoples time and tax payers money, the remaining 5 men will eventually get out. I believe that with all my heart. http://monfilsconspiracy.org/
What I don’t get is why the lawyers would not call Johnny or Prudence? The state got a conviction on Bent but I don’t think they did all that great of a job. Can you shed some light on that for me Johnny??
Diane,
You should feel free to bring-up your “cousin’s case” whenever you see fit. As you know, I covered that case for a few months back in 1994/95 while working at WBAY-TV in Green Bay.
If you can draw upon your family’s experiences in the Monfils case to address themes concerning the justice system in the Bent case, the resulting perspective further enriches this blog’s discussion of the Bent case.
You have no reason to say, “I’m sorry.”
Best,
Mark
I think that I might shed some light on your question Diane, since I was in communication with the Prosecution and heard and understood the detailed explanation of their “case theory” and their tactical plan for presentation of the evidence.
The prosecution decided to make the case center around one issue: Was a crime committed involving inappropriate touching of an intimate part of a minor child in violation of New Mexico law? They did not want to play into the principle defense tactic which was to try to make this primarily about freedom of religion. And so, having former members who would talk about Wayne’s teachings and what went on there could have resulted in lengthy cross examinations (involving whether they were just vindictive or had issues with Wayne’s religous beliefs) which would have then taken the jury’s focus away from the question of “did he touch an intimate part of a minor child’s body?”
They decided that having testimony from former members who were not even “on the land” when the incidents occurred and certainly not present in Wayne’s bedroom during the incidents would add nothing to the case. They had the parents’ testimony to give circumstances surrounding the incidents and they had the victims themselves saying what happened and most importantly,the defense announced prior to that trial that the accused, himself, had made the decision give up his constitutional rights and to take the stand. When Bent illustrated under oath where he had placed his hand on the girls’ chests during nude sessions, that really enabled the prosecution to focus narrowly on the distinction of whether, when he did that, “was his hand touching a part of the breast?”
The defense made every effort to try to make it about freedom of religion, but then they responded to the prosecution approach, attempting to rebut the prosecution’s case by using the Barbie doll. In their approach, the defense was trying to define an intimate part as being the nipple and areola and not the fleshy part of the breast, which the prosecution maintained met the requirement of the statute defining a criminal act.
By keeping their presentation and their summations clean, simple and well-focused, they were able to get the jury to concentrate on making what is called a “common sense decision,” whether when Bent placed his hand in the fashion which he illustrated (an on-the-stand sworn admission) on the naked girls’ chests, was he touching a part of their bodies which would meet the definition of a forbidden-by-law intimate part.
Had Wayne not taken the stand (he foolishly gave up his right to remain silent) and made that admission and had he not done the hand on the chest demonstration to the jury, then the prosecution would have had a harder time proving that a crime had occurred. They might then have called the former members so that they could describe events leading to and surrounding the laying naked (such as his verbal and email communications and all of the step-by-step procedures leading up to his sexual conquests with the remaining virgins ) so that such things as grooming and sexual intent would have been established. But, with Wayne testifying and admitting to what the victims said and illustrating where his hand was placed, none of the other was necessary.
— Sam
Thank you Sam! That does make sense to me now and your right, they probably wouldn’t have gotten a conviction had they done otherwise.
I’m sorry to keep bringing up my cousin’s case BUT, I can’t help it. : )
Happy Thursday Folks!
PS, I don’t ever want to hear about global warming again. It’s 41 degree’s right now in Green Bay, Wisconsin, 30 degree’s below normal. we literally saw snow flakes here on Monday. I would call that “global cooling”!
Check out this simulation of Wayne’s hand going over a bikini-clad girl’s heart, along with an actual photo of Wayne testifying, showing the jury on his own chest exactly where he placed his hand over the girls’ hearts:
http://strongcity2.info/images/handoverheart.html
It lets you envision what the jurors were picturing in their mind’s “eyes” based on the prosecution’s presentation.
Thank you Mark!
Sam- I looked at the simulation and I must say it’s very clear cut. And, are most women really that size? I would think most women are a little more “endowed” than whats shown in that simulation. If that were me, he would have had the whole thing. Bent has some pretty big hands too!
Yes, I agree, Diane… even a small “busted” woman like shown in the simulation would have not escaped the hand-over-the-heart touching some of the breast.
When you see Wayne’s hand on his own chest and then the comparison with it going over the “heart” of a small busted girl’s bikini-clad chest… it’s apparent that he probably could not have avoided touching some parts of the breasts of the victims.
The only hope for a defense appeal is whether touching the “fleshy part” is properly considered intimate contact or if touching the nipple or other places is necessary for that consideration. Think of it this way… if men tried touching the “fleshy parts” exposed on girl’s chests wearing clothing now in fashion in public places, like the mall, they would be arrested for indecency, that’s just our “community standard.”
And, there is Mew Mexico legal precedence which can be applied to conclude that a jury is allowed to decide, merely based on community standards, what should be considered an intimate part in a sexual indecency case. So an appeal based on those grounds might not have much hope.
— Sam