New: A message from Jeff Bent (Beyond90Seconds.com, September 17, 2009)
Update: Bent may be forced to eat (Albuquerque Journal North, September 7, 2009).
“At the very least, the warden told him if this religious fast progresses into the extent of a hunger strike, force-feeding could be on the table,” Bland said. (Albuquerque Journal North)
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(September 1, 2009) Convicted sex offender Wayne Bent says he’s fed-up with (allegorically speaking) being sexually abused by the State of New Mexico. In an August 31 post headlined My Crown of Thorns on the Strong City website, Bent writes that he has been fasting for two days and will continue to go without the state’s food and water.
Bent’s latest writing begins with a salutation to his distant flock:
Dear little family at Strong City,
Today [August 19, 2009], I heard the message that my appeal for bond was denied [Read the brief filed with the NM Court of Appeals .
In setting-out to explain his rationale for his latest fast, Bent sets the table by sharing that he was twice the victim of sexual molestation during childhood. Those stories are followed by this excerpt:
Now, in my old age, I have been molested again by a dirty old man. He is the State of New Mexico. This present molestation of me has affected me a hundredfold more than when I was barely eleven. I have been used as a sex object for the State of New Mexico and Dragonfly Productions in the UK, as well as the National Geographic Channel, in their fantasy movie of me. This little boy is greatly abused again, many times over.
In an allegorical picture, I see myself as the little eleven-year-old; a dirty old man kidnaps me and takes me to his prison house at Los Lunas. He now molests me there for these nine months, and makes me his sex object.
Bent and many of his followers have fasted numerous times since his 2008 arrest. Last December, a Taos jury found Bent guilty of one count of second-degree sexual contact of a child and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
So, how long will this fast last? Some paragraphs near the end of Bent’s latest offering appear to provide some insight:
I must now refuse to take any sustenance from the State. I will eat none of their food, or drink none of their water. I will cut off this hypocrisy. I refuse to be the State’s “head on a pole.” I do not belong to the State, and no, I am not its property. I have a heart, soul, and mind that belong only to God. This will never change. I will eat only that food and drink that are brought to me by my family, as in the last two imprisonments, and for the same reasons. My family believes in me, and none of them lie and say I molested girls. Their food comes with love. I will no longer receive food from this false owner.
So what will happen if the prison refuses to let my family provide for me? I will die of starvation in this dirty old man’s house, who has molested me for nine months; and, I may die of dehydration, unless God Himself sends the delivering Angel to me. It will be up to the State whether I live or die, but I must be true to myself. It is up to my Father what my resolution will be. It is written of this moment, “Blessed are those believers who die in the Lord from now on.” Revelation 14:13. “Be faithful unto death, and you will receive a crown.” Revelation 2:10.
Whether Bent dies of starvation remains to be seen. In the immediate future, it wouldn’t be surprising to learn that one or more of his supporters will join him in his fast.
Indeed, the first person to comment beneath Bent’s Crown of Thorns is his devoted Esther.
I just read Wayne Bent’s latest post regarding his “crown of thorns”. I noted this sentence in particular, “When Christ is crucified, few stand with Him.” The pull of that thought on his church family can only be understood by those who have been there. Yes, his followers have always been free to physically leave Strong City, but as the story of Jaycee Dugard demonstrates so cogently, they are bound psychologically and some may never break free.
It was also interesting to hear the report by Alex Hannaford in which he states that the remaining faithful followers of David Koresh are still awaiting his resurrection from the dead. In all likelihood, some of Wayne’s followers will do likewise if Wayne should die from his fast.
When you consider the power of deception, oh how critical it is that we order our lives by the living Word of God. “Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm…” Jeremiah 17:5
A well thought-out comment, wdawn55. Thank you for sharing your observations here.
Hopefully no one will begin fasting with Wayne as it seems he makes it clear in his statement that he does this one alone.
We can only hope that his people do in fact listen to what his wishes are this time.
Point noted. Let’s see how it unfolds…
Update from Strong City, September 3, 2009
Jeff Bent:
Sounds like things are progressing rather rapidly and the prison officials have this well under control, as they should.
Jan
I posted about this on my blog (of course, giving credit to Beyond90seconds, where I first got the info). You can click the link on my name to read it. I don’t take comments on my blog, but, there’s a link back to Beyond90seconds on my blog’s side panel so you can come right back here, if you feel inclined to respond.
I liked Sam how you so accurately stated, things had been going swimmingly for Wayne in prison. For what he did and how offended many people were by his actions I would say the prison had been very decent giving him a whole host of privileges.
The man foolishly laid out on their website his plan. Is he kidding himself that the prison would then not know and be quick to put a halt to this before it got out of hand?
So now as you pointed out he will be treated as a hard case and I would imagine he will not like that. Of course that will make the nasty State of New Mexico even more of an enemy, won’t it?
I wonder how long before the new vision from the Lord will be instructing Wayne to perhaps have a change of heart regarding the nasty prison food. How can he really be so stupid? If he wanted to fast why announce it, just not eat?
Great blog post by the way, and the other writings there as well.
I wouldn’t normally lower myself to address so much sewage and the pit that it is coming from but over the past few days I have felt such a pain rising up in my heart that I have to speak.
Over the months many of you have blundered along, sometimes throwing mud, other times throwing what you intended to be real spears. Lately I have wondered when it was that you forgot that real people were on the other end of the darts you throw? When was it that you lost your sense of another man’s honor and dignity? When did you lose sight of the burdens that all of us bear on this end of your mockery and hateful jesting? When did you lose your heart, or did you ever have one?
None of you have any clue what you are talking about. You do not know the man who you hold in such low esteem. You have never lived with him. You have never talked with him. You do not know the heart that we know. You do not know the eyes that we have looked into for the past 9 years. You have absolutely no clue.
My heart aches with what we face each day. The one soul who has become more precious to us than anything; the one soul who we have watched with our own eyes give everything that he has for us; who has loved when he was not loved in return, given asking nothing back, died when it looked like it was for nothing, now be beaten and crushed by mobs of angry men. I wonder when those men will wake up?
When? How long? Have you no heart at all? You abuse someone who you have no right to even look upon. This man is very precious and very innocent. I ask that you remember that next time you set your fingers on your keyboard to type another word about a man so precious to our hearts, a man so precious to the heart of God. A man so far from the vileness of your own hearts that you now place upon him.
Hello Esther,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
I will share that I have no doubt that the pain that you feel is real.
Sincerely,
Mark
You absolutely miss my point, Mr. Horner.
Goodnight.
Hello Esther,
I did not aim to address your points. Only to share that I have no doubt that your pain is real.
Goodnight.
Esther has thrown more darts that anyone on this site. She is very insulting, condescending, and arrogant. She thinks that only her cult is right and everyone else is wrong. That is just like any other cult. Why cant she see the pattern
There is quite an interesting update by Jeff today at the Strong City site. He was able to visit with Michael yesterday.
Esther,
I actually do understand how difficult it is to stand by and watch someone you care about deeply to be accused and attacked by the media, the press and message board posters. You sometimes feel the whole world is against you and who you care so deeply about.
Almost all of these people do not even begin to understand that these are real people involved and it is not just a story and the vicious way they come at you is hard to even begin to comprehend.
It is very challenging to be on what might say the “opposite side of a case or a media event.” All one can do is just stand tough in one’s beliefs and not listen or care what the masses say and do. If in your heart this is how you feel then you really only can answer and be concerned with your own conscience and your own life.
Well, Mr Redman, I took you up on your offer to respond. After reading your most recent post about Wayne Bent, and being myself intimately knowledgeable of the situation and conditions at Strong City, I feel I must congratulate you on the article. It likely contains the largest concentration of not only logical and fanciful errors per sentence of anything on the web, it also likely contains one of the greatest repositories of outright venal dishonesty (not to mention banality) that I’ve read in my 65 years.
I have known Wayne Bent for over thirty-years; been quite involved in our community all during that time, and you list things on your site I’ve never heard of. Is it your purpose to unashamedly publish lies, or are you simply an unpublished closet fiction writer seeking a forum in which to practice your prevarications?
Sam, my response here is in no way intended as an attempt to change your mind about anything, or even to sway or alter your opinions; but simply to the end that perhaps someone reading this will take with them the idea that this man is clearly at least very questionable in not only the accuracy of his information, but his honesty and personal integrity as well.
One cannot help but wonder at the hypocrisy of a man who would write things like “Free Wayne Bent,” contribute a few cents to his legal fund, and then turn and post the puddle swill found on your site. Perhaps you could clarify these matters, Sam, but I’m not at all sure that your credibility is redeemable at this point. With such a focus on purely, baseless imagination, how can you expect anyone to take seriously anything you write — ever?
Mr. Redman,
Like Esther, talking with people who generate and then believe lies about our church, Wayne Bent or anyone else, is not my thing. But I saw you had commented here, and because I had thought you saw some of the issues with some clarity from previous communications, I went to your blog and read your piece about Mr. Bent’s “new fast.” I was surprised at the amount of blatant untruth in it. In the first paragraph alone, I counted nine things you stated as facts that are totally, 100% untrue. And yet you wrote this slimy report about Mr. Bent’s activities, just as if it were true and you knew all about it, when it is not and you don’t. Then others read it, assume they now know what happened, too, and join in the mocking. People love to believe some preacher did slimy sex acts in the name of God. Somehow, in a way that is beneath their level of awareness or honesty, it justifies the corruption that is in their own heart. It helps to keep the conscience numb, while giving them something to talk about. What a sad way to live.
You obviously read Mr. Bent’s letter on our website, telling about his fast and the reasons for it. How could you possibly make this statement:
“…he announced that he was going on a fast because he didn’t like the prison food.”
I don’t see how you could possibly have missed his point, and his reason for fasting.
I read your little post on your blog last night, last thing before going to bed. At some point in the night I awoke with the very clear realization that you are not interested in the truth. It came to me as a fundamental reality, and it was like, “Oh, I get it.” My natural tendency would be to want to go down through your post and list all the lies and set everyone straight so they could see the light. But I realize people WANT to believe what they do; they have their reasons for it, and what the actual truth is is seldom in the equation. I don’t have a heart anymore to try and point out errors and lies, when that is what people love and want. All I can say now is, go ahead and believe what you want; it’s OK.
You know folks, the testimonies of the former members will and do have some creedance and should not be ignored. We were there, and some of us know just as much as the current members of the LOR. You do not pull the wool over our eyes. I personally remember everything. I am shocked to read these current comments of Beth (Kathy Bowman)and Gabriel (Dale Brown). You both, as much as the others who were there in the beginning, have forgotten the original dogmas and vision of the LOR, along with the teachings of Ellen White. What happened to your original faith and love for biblical truth? Wayne was warned to not do these things, but no one would utter a comment out of fear of being lost. Jeff tried, twice, but he backed down when no one would stand with him. I remember these days very well. I was there. And now, you, I and all humanity get to witness these current events being played out, and am I surprised? No. Wayne is a victim of his own teaching, “You reap what you sow…. maybe even 100 fold…” This is soooo fair. Perhaps a remnant of the LOR will see and live before it is too late.
Be careful to your weapons of Mass Destruction, journalists. And to Boeing Pilots trained in Afghan caves.
All or Nothing
It is interesting how people view posts from others that do not share their point of view 100%. That is how Beth and Gabriel must be reading the Sam Redman blog, as not 100% to their liking. Sure there are some opinions on his blog that I can see them objecting to because it would seem, if you read all the postings that he has been very honest in his thoughts on Wayne’s writings and skeptical about some of his Biblical teachings. Since one can glean from reading there that Mr. Redman has proven to have an excellent understanding himself of the Bible it appears to me that he has been quite accurate where he has questioned how Wayne tries to incorporate the Bible into the hows and whys of his actions and prophecies.
But let’s be fair here Mr. Redman has also strongly criticized whether Wayne would even be found guilty and if I remember he did not exactly believe he should be found guilty. I am positive though he has mentioned several times that he felt the sentence was too harsh and he also posted somewhere about support of an appeal. I have even seen Redman taken to task by others on boards where they felt Sam was way to protective of the rights of Wayne Bent. (imagine that?)
I don’t know but what I read in this last post was just one commenting about how the Prison System has to treat everyone somewhat the same. And it seemed that except for this “brought in food idea,” Wayne was being treated quite well there. I understand Beth and Gabriel you care about this man and believe he is special but what kind of situation would it be across the land if suddenly a preponderance of prisoners were demanding special diets, brought in by loved ones, and if they did not get them they were all going to refuse to eat? That would be chaos.
One thing that has irritated me about the followers of Wayne Bent is they all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. And they all seem to nitpick every poster even some that have posted at least half the time more or less in support of them and also Wayne Bent. I find this “all or nothing,” attitude quite ineffective in today’s world where compromise is the key to everything.
All or Nothing
It is interesting how people view posts from others that do not share their point of view 100%. That is how Beth and Gabriel must be reading the Sam Redman blog, as not 100% to their liking. Sure there are some opinions on his blog that I can see them objecting to because it would seem, if you read all the postings that he has been very honest in his thoughts on Wayne’s writings and skeptical about some of his Biblical teachings. Since one can glean from reading there that Mr. Redman has proven to have an excellent understanding himself of the Bible it appears to me that he has been quite accurate where he has questioned how Wayne tries to incorporate the Bible into the hows and whys of his actions and prophecies.
But let’s be fair here Mr. Redman has also strongly criticized whether Wayne would even be found guilty and if I remember he did not exactly believe he should be found guilty. I am positive though he has mentioned several times that he felt the sentence was too harsh and he also posted somewhere about support of an appeal. I have even seen Redman taken to task by others on boards where they felt Sam was way to protective of the rights of Wayne Bent. (imagine that?)
I don’t know but what I read in this last post was just one commenting about how the Prison System has to treat everyone somewhat the same. And it seemed that except for this “brought in food idea,” Wayne was being treated quite well there. I understand Beth and Gabriel you care about this man and believe he is special but what kind of situation would it be across the land if suddenly a preponderance of prisoners were demanding special diets, brought in by loved ones, and if they did not get them they were all going to refuse to eat? That would be chaos.
One thing that has irritated me about the followers of Wayne Bent is they all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. And they all seem to nitpick every poster even some that have posted at least half the time more or less in support of them and also Wayne Bent. I find this “all or nothing,” attitude quite ineffective in today’s world where compromise is the key to everything.
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Acts 28:27
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” Revelation 1:7
Jeff Bent said he believes his father is sincere THIS time. “I just don’t know what the outcome will be,” he said. “If the state sticks him with (feeding) tubes, I imagine he’ll live.”
Is anyone keeping count of the many times he’s promised to fast until death?
Many people in this world fast as part of a religious journey. Most don’t share it with the news media for attention. It’s supposed to be a private thing to help you grow closer to God.
In fact, it’s practiced by Roman and Orthodox Catholics during Lent and for many Catholics fasting is a part of their lives year round.
The picture of Jesus fasting that Jeff posted on their website is called “Christ in the Desert” by Ivan Kramskoy, 1872. He probably began life as an Eastern Orthodox or Russian Catholic since he began at the age of 15 as an apprentice to an icon-painter. To be fair though I haven’t found any references to his religious life.
Finally, we should remember Christ’s words from
Matthew 6:16-18
16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
WB makes a mockery of fasting with his carnival sideshow atmosphere.
Dear Scott,
I was not addressing Mr. Redman’s opinions or point of view. He is as entitled to them as anyone, and it is 100% fine with me if we don’t agree. What I was referring to was not him sharing opinions or points of view about things that actually happened, but to him reporting things as if they are what actually happened, that are not true, not accurate, and did NOT actually happen.
You also said we all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. I know it has looked that way to some, without a deeper look or understanding into the principles involved. But what we believe and live by is that ALL men are entitled to the same — to treatment that is fair and honest. If Wayne were imprisoned justly, for a crime he actually committed, it would be right for him to eat their food and drink their water. It would be an act of agreement, and honesty. But they have imprisoned him unjustly, and based on a lie. To eat their food implies agreement, assent, and communion with them in the lie that put him there, which they are standing by. After giving the powers involved ample time and opportunity to acknowledge the clearly provable truth, Mr. Bent conscientiously feels he must withdraw his agreement with them. To continue any longer to “play along” would make him a liar. And if he is anything, Wayne Bent is an honest man. Only an honest man would be willing to die for the truth. These principles, and how he has been led over the months to make this decision, was made very clear in his letter.
Sincerely,
Beth
Wayne is wanting to die because he cant have his freedom and he cant control his surroundings. If he truly believed in his own innocence, he would want to be sharp and strong so he could fight, no matter how long it takes.
There are victims involved whose lives have been scarred forever, they deserve justice. Also, anyone who encourages someone to “fast” to death, is sick.
Jeff wants us to know that fasting is not suicide. And of course in this, he is correct. People have always fasted for other reasons, better ones. Not for suicide. But Jeff, those who “fast” unto death, is this not suicide? Those who announce the reason for their fast as death (or better food), if they persist until they die at it, is this not suicide? True fasting would not cause a person’s death.
You could argue that fasting, like drinking water is a healthful practice that no one should worry about (prison officials). But those who announce that they are going to drown themselves if they don’t get what they want, they are not just drinking water, now are they.
That fasting is not suicide, this kind of wise sounding saying, where have we heard it before? Oh, yes, right. The seven plus women were not violated because they came naked. The girls were not molested because they wanted it, asked for it. It was not fornication because they were instructed by God to do it. And now, fasting is not suicide. But this begs the question, Whatever one does in such a way that it kills him, how is this not suicide? Fasting would not kill anyone now would it.
You say, well David, he has already done this many times and it never killed him before. This means it must not have been sucide.
This is true, he is not dead–you noticed that too. And right you are. But only because he stopped it just before in when that far. If he is doing what Jeff says he is now, total fast, if he doesn’t stop it again before death, if no one stops him, he will die. This is what he is doing and where he is headed if Jeff is correct, having talked about it with his dad for some time now, as he describes it. And this is not fasting. If what he says his dad is doing now is true, it is suicide. And Jeff is deceived to think it something else. Which he does. Jeff is deceived.
Jeff assures us, “I know what he is doing”, (fasting, not suicide). But we see that he doesn’t.
Jeff Bent may end up burying his father. The fantasy world that they live in will continue to fade away, and he will have to deal with having lived a lie.
It is really sad to watch someone harm themself in such a way.
This just might be the sad very pitiful ending of the Wayne Bent Saga. I wonder if his people are really prepared and ready for this. It is one thing to declare that they are, but when you truly lose a loved one it all of a sudden becomes very real in a way that you cannot feel or understand prior. Even Jeff, he says he and his dad have talked about all of this and he knows what to expect. But then I read Jeff’s words and I am not so sure. In one breath the the other day he said his dad was being treated well and then in the next breath he spoke of his isolation and that was not right. Now he is saying fasting is not suicide. Normally with a sane and rational person fasting is not suicide. It is a spiritual experience from what I have read to be closer to God. But those spiritual people that fast are usually doing it privately and without all the fanfare. Wayne Bent is doing this for a purpose that as I read it is not at all spiritual. He no longer wants to eat the food of those who unfairly imprisoned him. Once again this all seems to go back to “Poor Me.” Wayne and his people think they are the only ones to be wrongly accused and convicted of a crime. I would register that many prisoners believe they are innocent and have been treated by their States unjustly. What happened to that Appeal that people were donating for? What happened to waiting to see if in fact he might actually get a second chance? Certainly this attempt to coerce the State will only poison the minds and hearts of the Courts even more, as I feel certain they are reading about this. Wayne was just too impatient to even wait and see. Does that speak that maybe he does not believe that he actually is as innocent here as he wants us all to believe?
These recent acts to me speak more to what I have long believed to be the heart of what is going on here with Mr. Bent. His mind has gone. He is severely mentally ill. None of what he says anymore makes much sense. He is incapable of making sense because his judgment to do so is severely impaired. I doubt this is recent, as it is probably something that has been apart of him for a very long time. All those visions and his prophecies probably came from his confused mind. The only part of his mind that seems to be still functioning is the manipulative portion as he still works his people into believing his actions are spiritual and justified. So Jeff sits faithfully by and tries to explain it all to the little band of believers who are still waiting and watching for some miraculous event to come from this latest “Fast.” And of course none of them see it as suicide because their Michael would never do that. But if the State lets him go without food and just monitors his other actions, in a week or so Wayne Bent will be gone and yes Jeff and all his followers, that will be a form of suicide.I wonder for some if it might actually be somewhat of a relief?
“Now, they are trying to silence and break him. They will fail.”
Here, Jeff speaks of the prison officials and their efforts at preserving the life of the “Messiah” who is in their care. Jeff says messiah is fasting (read intending to starve himself to death). Is Jeff concerned that his dad might die? Not if he thinks this is just another fast.
“I know what he is doing. He and I have talked a lot about this over the past year or so, and especially the past few weeks. I know his resolve. He is on a total fast now. He will not bow down to the beast, making peace with a corrupt system that enslaves people. He does not want any of their favors.”
This doesn’t sound so serious. If a fast is healthy, it seems in the mind of Jeff, then a total fast should be totally healthy.
“I know his resolve.” If he knows his resolve, it would seem he should be concerned, for his life, not for his comfort, ability to communicate with the world, or quality of the vegitarian food he is served three times a day. If the state will not be able to “break him” as Jeff says it won’t, then messiah would die. This should be cause for concern for Jeff, but it isn’t. How to make sense of this.
There is another reason that would give Jeff cause, not to be concerned-—the state–confidence that the state will not let messaih carry out his threat. That way, if the state does its job, life is preserved and also, face can be “saved”, Wayne’s. His “resolve” (stubborn ness) held firm, it was intended to be unto death but the evil state stepped in and preseved messiah’s life. And when he starts eating again (so as to avoid the discomfort of the tubes and straps that would not allow him to move to damage himself), it will be tauted that he was not broken.
I suspect that Jeff is not the only one with this kind of confidence in the state. Wayne is depending ont it as well. In the past, for all the preannounced fasts unto death, Wayne has been the one to find a reason to stop them. Now, for this, with the use of a quick calculation, he has the state to do it for him. I would guess he roughly has about as much confidence in them for that as oh say…we do.
If so, if we (and Wayne) are correct in our little calculation and the state does its job, no matter his resolve, he isn’t going to die. Thus far, according to what Jeff has written about it now, Jeff is not concerned about the possibility of his death. This is because to this point, Jeff has thought it through—it ain’t gonna happen and he feels free to talk about his dad’s considerable resolve.
Dave, I am sure you are correct that the State won’t let him die this way … But one never knows, perhaps they might decide that this man is a royal pain in the “you know what,” and might just let him get his way.
I don’t know if this has ever happened before, that a person in prison refused to eat and was left to be allowed to die? One thing though, this refusal to eat, by Wayne, I wonder how many times a person’s body can take this and not be impaired and weakened. He might be hastening the inevitable anyways.
I don’t think though what Jeff reports though is always what Jeff thinks or believes. He is rather disingenuous.
Fasting from food is not really a problem unless you have an underlying medical conditions (diabetes, heart disease, etc.) Many people intermittently fast throughout the year with no problems. All of us fast when we sleep (usually at night) which is where Break – Fast comes from.
The real problem is hydration. The one reason Esther wasn’t in worse shape than she was is that she was taking water with what sounded like electrolytes in it. Although she was weakened, by taking water you can still function fairly normally.
When you cut off fluid intake though, you have about 3 days until your organs start shutting down. Some of the early symptoms are that you become chilled easily, faint, suffer from muscle cramps and nausea. If the fluid loss is not taken care of (via IV) you’ll start to be confused, you might have muscle spasms, chest and abdominal pain, seizures and eventually unconsciousness.
These are not all the possible symptoms and age, health condition and your weight (which in WB’s case is thin to start with) all play a role in how quickly the process moves along.
The prison system will NOT let him get to that point no matter what a pain in the rear he is. They WILL deal with him to the point of IV’s, feeding tubes and even sedation if he is extremely uncooperative. And WB will hate everything they are doing, calling it torture (as he is prone to pronounce everything that is done to him that he dislikes) and if and/or when they return some of his privileges, I’m sure we’ll hear all about it.
But, I believe he has been hoisted by his own petard! Like someone pointed out, Sam maybe, he had a good thing going on for an inmate. I doubt that after the trouble he’s giving the prison that he’ll get those same privileges back. He’ll have to earn them and since he is stubborn like a mule, that won’t happen for a long time.
Jeff seems like a pawn in this game and maybe it’s of his own choosing, but sometimes I get the feeling he wishes all these problems would just go away so he could get on with his life.
I noticed on the StrongCity Website where Jeff Bent (the dutiful son) is all in an uproar because the state is trying to protect the life of his Dad. Jeff is outraged that the prison officials had the audacity to put Wayne on a “24 hour suicide watch.”
Jeff is just so puzzled why they would do that when all his Dad said was that he was not going to eat or drink any water until he died. In other words, Wayne says he plans to kill himself by fasting to his death. Jeff says, “That’s that’s not suicide, that’s religious fasting.” But, Jeff, if you kill yourself (whether with a gun or a knife or by not taking sustenance), that’s suicide. You might could call it “suicide by religious fasting,” if you wished a more palatable terminology… but anyway you wish to label it, if the “religious fast” continues the way Wayne has promised, then he will be dead by his own hand (that’s suicide).
Jeff can’t understand that there is a social system in this country which actually cares about human life (even those who are in prison). I guess once you have been indoctrinated so much that everything outside of their tiny, tiny world is evil, you can’t understand that we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred, even for someone on a self-stated mission of self-destruction.
I’m not gonna commit suicide with this gun, but I am going to put it in my mouth, and I’m going to pull the trigger, but I’m not going to commit suicide! God will deliver me, or I might die, but I will not commit suicide!!!!!!!!!!!How dare they put me on suicide watch!
“…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…”
You can’t be serious, Mr. Redman.
You can’t possibly believe amidst the incontrovertible evidence of off-the-charts abortions, continually mounting war deaths, torture, abuse and brutal treatment of “prisoners” and many other examples of injustices all perpetrated and sanctioned by the US government that “…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…” Surely you jest in purporting that there is a measure of sacred concern for human life on a national level.
The New Mexico (In)Justice system could not care a flying fig for Wayne Bent’s life EXCEPT for the impact it potentially has on the number of individuals involved in his incarceration, from the greatest to the least. For self-interested purposes, and not because anyone is so sacredly concerned for his life, is Wayne threatened with aggressive, invasive and uncivilized treatment if he will not bow to their wishes. If there was a genuine and sacred concern for Wayne’s life, he would be heard and justice would be served promptly. He will not preserve his life if it means that that life must be sustained at the cost of agreeing to a lie.
Political prisoners are often given a modicum of acknowledgment by those who do not understand their position but when the Son of God is in need of support, those who have the same aforementioned self-interest stand by the sidelines, lashing him with tongue whips spiked with innuendo, imagination and ignorance, thinking they do God service.
Dear Hanifa, I believe you have lived far too long in the safety of Strong City.
Granted, there are horrible people in our world who have no regard for human life or human dignity. But, you are not getting a “real life” view of our world. There are many more people in this world who love and care for the people created by God than there are evil people out to harm us. You can’t really know this world when you are living sheltered in the far NE corner of NM connected to the world only through the Internet, because GOOD things go unreported by the mainstream media.
I don’t think you realize that many of us who post here really care about you and your extended family. You have it in your mind that we are all out to get you but you believe this because it’s been pounded into you for years by one man whose sole purpose has been to control you and your families for his own gain. He got what he wanted and now he’s paying the price for his happy years of worship by you and your church. I believe your church calls this “Cause and Effect”.
You and I are very close in age and during the time you were giving up everything for this man (and he is just a man, not messiah) I have been blessed with a wonderful husband, 5 beautiful children, my Grandparents and Parents and so many loving friends I can’t count them all. I have traveled this world and met both rich and poor people who love God and choose to share that love with strangers as well as family.
I have been blessed to care for dying people, young and old and to comfort and console their families. I have brought smiles to the faces of little children who have been so abused by their families that we didn’t know if they would ever smile again.
I have fed the hungry and given clothing and shelter to the homeless. I’ve visited the imprisoned, most of whom are sincerely sorry for whatever they did to be incarcerated.
And I am only one person. I’m not patting myself on the back, just pointing out that there are hundreds of thousands of people who like me do good things everyday and ask for nothing in return.
God ask only two things from me. First that I believe in Him and only Him. Secondly, that I love my neighbors as I love myself. This is what I have tried to do and is the reason I sincerely care about you and pray for you, your children and all the others at Strong City.
I even pray for Wayne Bent’s soul because as David wrote in Psalm 62:11-12;
11 God has spoken once, twice have I heard this: that power belongs to God.
12 Also to You, O Lord, belong mercy and loving-kindness, for You render to every man according to his work.
John 3:16;
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (Jesus Christ), that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God bless you and all the others at Strong City.
Yes Sam, the very idea that prison officials would actually want to keep one of their prisoners alive is surprising to Jeff? Sometimes Jeff just floors me by the words he expects us to believe in those posts. I find it even harder to understand when I remember that Jeff used to actually work for law enforcement and he must have some idea in these various situations (like Esther too) what will eventually happen. Does he really think that anyone but a few followers will not see Wayne’s actions for an attempt at attention and perhaps publicity or more than likely manipulation? There is just no way we can accept all this as a genuine Communion with God acting in the way others might in a religious fast. None of that is what this is about. It is all another “poor misunderstood innocent Wayne.”
So just like your very articulate blog post, I applaud everything you said today too.
And Hanifa, again I very much respect your love for this man. But you are wrong about society. Yes there will always be wars, and abortions and killings and horrible acts done by malicious and evil people. But unlike you who live in your sheltered world I am out in society and I see many very wonderful people all the time doing good things and loving their fellow man. It is sad that you all have become so jaded in your beliefs that you just cannot see what Sam sees and KM sees and others. And most of us don’t dislike you or your followers we just do not enjoy seeing you all being taken in and manipulated time and time again by the love you feel for this one man. It is wonderful to love him but to let him control your life, your thoughts and the way you exist in this world is truly tragic.
By the way truly awesome posts by KM and Sam today. They both said much of what I too have been thinking since I read Jeff’s words this morning. I cannot wait to read what will be surprising ole Jeff tomorrow morning, or maybe it is as KM suggested:
And I wonder that too.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luke 16:15
Hanifa, why do quote verses in the bible to make your point, but completely ignore all of the verses that show Wayne to be false? Fasting is prayer, but hunger strikes are an attempt to change a circumstance.
The pride and unreasoning stubbornness of your cult only makes you look like fools. Wayne has mental problems, and instead of anyone telling the king he has no clothes, you guys just thought it would be “God’s will” to just imagine clothes on him!
There is so much discussion on this site about Michael Travesser committing suicide that it should be addressed. Before I address it I would like to make it plain that I do not believe that Michael Travesser is committing suicide. I have known him for many many years in various capacities and have never known him to digress from strict integrity in any particular. That is why I can state that when he says it is not suicide, that I know it is not, no matter how it may look to some.
But for sake of argument lets look at it from the standpoint of suicide. What transpires in a person’s life to the point that they would take their own life? If a person really were compassionate wouldn’t they want to know WHY he would want to do that? Isn’t it because a person is backed into a corner with no escape? Or aren’t they are put in a situation where there is no possibility of any release from a situation that is worse than death? A person who wants to commit suicide would rather die that keep on doing what they are doing. I do not see one person on this site asking why would a person do that, from a compassionate standpoint. Instead I see a couple of finger pointers who pretend compassion, but in reality are tongue lashers.
Sam Redman says that we should be glad that we live in a country where people do care about a person’s life even if they are in prison. He sounds like he is compassionate, but if one were to examine closely this aspect they can see that there is no compassion at all. The justice system has no compassion. And all those who pretend to wring their hands saying that Michael might commit suicide have no compassion either. Those who had real compassion would start to examine WHAT would drive him there. They would recognize that if he is in a situation where it is more preferable to die than continue on with the present existence that it be torture to force him to keep on? Especially considering that he is allowed no reprieve from a situation where there is no solution.
From a suicide standpoint he prison wants to torture him. Those on the outside looking on want to torture him. Those who tongue lash him want him tortured.
The “victims” both stated that it was a religious experience with no sexual contact. They both stated they came of their own free will. They both stated that he did not touch any sexual area and yet he is condemned to 18 years for it!! The sternum is commonly seen on women on the streets everyday. I have see women with shirts so low cut that one can see nearly to their belly buttons. Yet one man who touches it in a healing situation is sent to prison for 18 years? On the other hand a man who had repeated sexual penetrations with a minor got released on work release on the same day as his sentencing. It is so hypocritical that it is beyond belief. Where is the relief? Where is the justice? Where is the compassion? I do not see any at all. What do I see?
I see a howling mob who would rather torture a man to death than honestly look at the situation for what it really is. I see a justice system built on a political agenda for personal gain. I see a country where religious freedom has disappeared unless it is state approved. I see a people who pretend nice words but are actually tongue lashing him and those who love him with their words. I see that Michael Travesser is a man who has personal integrity in the face of all this, but is hated beyond description for standing for what is right and true.
Michael, I stand with you and will defend to my own death your position and right to do with your mind and body as God directs you. We are supposed to live in a country where ones personal beliefs are protected and defended by a constitution. But that is gone.
Jeff said Godspeed Daddy. I say the same. Well done thou good and faithful servant of God. God sees all the gross hypocrisy in this. How do I know that He sees hypocrisy? I know He sees it, because I see it.
Sam, you said, “…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…”
I challenge you to go to Iraq and tell that to the families and friends of the millions of children that have starved to death from the sanctions of the first Gulf war. I challenge you to say that to the people of Panama, Columbia, Serbia, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia and a host of other countries that have received your brand of civilization. I challenge you to say that to the victims of Waco and Ruby Ridge.
If you go to these people and say that face to face, and survive, come back and tell us their responses.
I doubt that you would survive more than a few moments in Iraq.
Milton, If you saw a mentally ill person hitting himself in the face with a brick, and he told you that God had told him to do it, what would you do? Do you have any compassion for someone so sick that they would do that? You would prabably give them a bigger brick, and stand by and try to justify his actions in some spiritual way that for some reason only you can understand and explain to everyone.
Wayne has never been tortured. Ask a Vietnam POW about torture.
Are you seriously justifing suicide, if you feel you are backed into a corner? Wow, you are a sick guy.
LOR, FROM THE INSIDE
Since some of the LOR people write as if they can’t understand why we the world is not as “compassionate” toward the object of their affections as they, I just thought to address that question. Explain it for them. And then those of us who have never been a member of LOR can look into the LOR mind.
I was a LORite. Simply said, what was required of us is quite typical of what they are posting about their god, the object of their affections. The following quotation, recently posted is an example of it. NO deviation from this example is tolerated.
“Before I address it I would like to make it plain that I do not believe that Michael Travesser is committing suicide. I have known him for many many years in various capacities and have never known him to digress from strict integrity in any particular. That is why I can state that when he says it is not suicide, that I know it is not, no matter how it may look to some.”
On the other hand, were this person to say to a fellow in confidence, something like, “Perhaps the Bible is correct, Wayne should not be taking his son’s wife to bed whenever he wants”, or “perhaps if he kills himself with his fast, perhaps it was suicide” the reaction would be swift. He would be visited and dealt with immediately. Such a thought would not be tolerated.
Each member knows this and does not allow himself such a question. He has seen what happened to his former close friends who did–Wayne’s cruelty to them. Suddenly, over night, everybody knows they are dead, or demon possessed, or something worse and they are packing, soon to be on the highway, hitchhiking.
Only absolute allegiance as to an infallible god is tolerated.
In my day, our man had not yet become god, nor had he begun molesting children and women members. No matter what he does now, if he says he is only fasting (until he gets some better food), if he says it isn’t suicide, even though the members know that without water and food, he would not last long, even though he dies, they say it isn’t suicide.
If he says it isn’t fornication, like in the example above, it isn’t fornication. Why not? Because he said so. Nothing more is needed.
They take his spin on it and say the evil uncompassionate state is torturing him and killing him. If they said something else, they know that they should be ready to pack their bags and be forever lost, banished from the church. They know they will soon feel the right foot of fellowship. Just as they have given it to their former closest friends and family (Ester etc.). How often have they been witness to it?
They write as if in wonder, in amazement at the law, and the state prison system, that it is not compassionate as they imagine themselves to be. How compassionate will the ten commandments be one day?
Have they so soon forgotten? Is cause and effect as per Wayne, is it compassionate? When the curse comes in Wayne’s “cause and effect,” you get exactly what you did to deserve it. If you end up sick, maimed or dead, surprise, where is the compassion in that? Wayne always says you did it.
This is LOR’s great theme, yet now they cry for compassion from the law, as if their god is not fairly treated by cause and effect. If they really believed it as they have made others believe, they would understand. They would see the fairness in it all. But no. As for their most prominent theme, along with their god, they are required to become exhibit A—hypocrites.
Hello fellow posters! I never thought I would see this day come, thank you Mark!
I don’t even know where to start. I think first I’m going to start at the top and catch up.
Mwah…….I missed you all!
Forgot to say thank you to Jan for the heads up.
THANK YOU JAN!
You are very welcome Diane. Nice to see you back again.
Jan
David Mead:
You speak as if you know our mind, when you have never known our mind. If you had really known our mind you would know that all the things you said, never existed in the mind of those truly converted to God. Only in the unconverted mind do the things you imagine exist.
You also said, “Only absolute allegiance as to an infallible god is tolerated.”
Is that how you imagine Jesus? Jesus NEVER required absolute allegiance. When has God ever required absolute allegiance? What kind of “infallible” god do you serve that requires absolute allegiance?
This proves to me that you have never known God for Who He is. You have never known His Son either.
I known Him as a Lover, not some infallible god who requires absolute allegiance.
And the things I say are NEVER said from fear of reprisal or being chastised for it. The things I say come from my heart, not because it is expected of me or because I adhere to some standard that you falsely believe exists or existed.
What you described existed in the minds of those who tried to control others and from those who saw themselves controlled by others rather than by God alone. I saw you for who you really were at the split when you talked to the other disgruntled ones privately.
Milton
James, you did not read what I wrote with a mind to understand what was written. I never said I would assist anyone who wanted to commit suicide.
What I did say was the Constitution was written to defend personal liberty and that is gone. I defend personal liberty–as everyone should.
Ron, I do not justify suicide. You miss the point altogether.
And yes Michael is being tortured by the state.
Jesus was tortured on a cross. Many others have died on crosses too, but the cross of Christ was different because there was physical and mental torture combined with the weight of the sins of the world on Jesus. God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. God felt death in His Son.
Michael Travesser’s torture carries elements of torture that you do not understand either. God is in Michael being tortured by a host of things that are beyond your comprehension.
Milton, you are so heavily indoctrinated into the mythology of religion, that you see only God as defined by someone else. It is exactly like not being able to see the forest for the trees. God doesn’t need anyone to do the hokey pokey to make something happen.
Have you studied other religions? Have you really checked to see if Rev. Moon, Father Divine, Adi Da, Vissarion, or countless other cult leaders could be the “second coming of Christ”, as they also claimed? Scientology, Islam, Mormanism?
Do you remember watching the Manson Family on the news? That is exactly the way your cult looks to everyone else. We don’t know each other, but I have always felt that we are all connected. So when I see a child reach out for a hot stove, it is a natural reaction to try to stop them. Your group kind of forced its way into my world by being on TV and the internet.
Ron, yes I have looked at many other different religions prior to choosing my own walk with God and many others afterwards too. I looked into eastern religions as well as western.
Charles Manson and “family” killed Sharon Tate and others in a blood bath. Charles Manson used a variety of drugs. We have killed no one and do not partake of the world’s concoctions in any form and never will.
There is no way to compare us to them.
If you do not like what you see on the TV or the internet, shut it off. You are not forced to watch anything.